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Old 03-01-2019   #21
 
MT4Runner's Avatar
 
Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,275
It's not exactly brain surgery, is it?

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Old 03-01-2019   #22
 
portland, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 13
Loved your story. Some people just can’t shake that shroud of negativity and he blamed you for everything. Yes we all know ‘steves’.... but we don’t have to raft with them AGAIN
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Old 03-01-2019   #23
Never enough free time
 
Red Lodge, Montana
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 227
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Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post
It's not exactly brain surgery, is it?

Thank you for that....I laughed some coffee though my nose
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Old 03-01-2019   #24
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 234
You know, some of what you say makes you sound like a humble, easy to get along with guy. It was also an entertaining read. However, and please don't take this as an attack because I don't know your or anyone else from that trip, but a lot of your comments make me think you came off as a pushy know-it-all who thinks your preferred way to experience the river is the "best" way, or even the only way.

Below is me playing devil's advocate. I'm going to be intentionally assuming negative interpretations of your behaviour as a worst case scenario. I made it through book 1 and 2 with my comments, but I'm not going to do book 3 because I've spent more time on this than I intended to. Besides, you'll get the gist from what I've done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
With introductions out of the way...I asked a lot of questions and offered more advice than was prudent. Despite my objections, Jason directed us all to fend for our respective groups...I emphasized that weight is not anyone’s friend for a low water Middle Fork Trip. My comments fell on deaf ears.
It shounds like you realize you probably were pushier than you should have been. It probably did not set a good first impression.

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Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
It was imperative that we launch by 8 am.
Clearly not, since you ended up launching at 1pm and still made it by dark (albeit 3 miles less than originally planned). The Fishes also seemed comfortable waiting until 11am, so they at least did not feel as much urgency as you did. However, if you felt it was imperative, did that influence your reaction when Steve finally did show up? You were probably stressed, he was stressed - I can see that building on the potential negative reactions from the BBQ.

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Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
As Steve jumped out of his truck, the strap on his right sandal pulled out of the sole. No problem. With a large upholstery needle and dental floss, I stitched his sandal back together.
Did he ask for help? Did you offer and he accepted? Or did you jump in to be the super-hero? Even if one of the first two, it might have colored events later in the trip.

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Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
In the flurry of activity, I saw Steve literally throwing gear in the boats to get them on the water.
Clearly Steve was stressed and feeling badly about holding the group up. That might have been a good time to tell him to slow down - an extra 30 minutes loading the boat is not likely to make or break you.

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Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
Apparently, at home as Steve was preparing to load boats and gear, he was backing up his truck and trailer to load his boat and ran over it. I presume the damage was beyond immediate repair to either the boat, the frame, or both. I know it was not in my best interest to ask for details. He was able to borrow his brothers raft...and pick up a rented Cat. As a result, he did not leave home until sometime Monday morning. He then got lost in the back-roads of the Sawtooth’s trying to find Boundary Creek and the put-in. Then his sandal. . . . and the pressure of it all . . .
Ahh, finally some empathy. Up to now your story has been pretty critical of anyone, especially Steve, who is not as hyper-organized as you. I also tend to be hyper-organized so I can relate, but I also realize lots of people prefer to wing it and be more relaxed about things. He was late for a reason. Sometimes shit doesn't go as planned. I'd say it would have been nice if he'd been better prepared, but I don't know what else might have been going on in his life either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
...a 5 gallon...bucket washed out of Steve’s raft...it bounced along the river bottom...until it was in multiple pieces. I insisted that he make at least make a reasonable effort to recover it and stow it for the balance of the trip. Steve was not talking to me.
Normally I'd agree with you, but in an already stressful situation where clearly you're already having personality problems, why wouldn't you just pick up the bucket pieces yourself?

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Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
We finally pulled into camp about 9 pm. No time for me at the hot springs tonight...
Are you the type of person that likes to get to camp early? There's nothing wrong with that, as long as you realize others might not care. I've been on trips where we were on the river by 9am every day, and others where we were never on the river before noon. I can go either way, but I know some people on both trips that got antsy because they had a preference one way or the other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
No dry clothes or bedding for the Monkeys tonight. I sorted through my gear and found a couple blankets and sleeping bag liners that I carry for emergencies ...and took them to Steve. For unknown reasons, Steve was not talking to me.
Again, did you offer or just do it? If he felt time pressure from you when loading his boats, he might also have blamed you for the fact everything was wet in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
Steve made contact with the rock wall on the left channel and tore a hole in his brother’s boat. I was a bit puzzled how a boat could hit a rock wall that hard. I stayed with him and we patched the boat.
Again, you're fixing his problems. Did he ask or you offer, or did you just jump in? "I was a bit puzzled how a boat could hit a rock wall that hard" - that implies he was somehow at fault. Maybe he was, but maybe it was an unlucky fluke too. I've actually never put a hole in my raft, but I'd call myself lucky more than skilled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
Steve was talking to me now, although it is only to complain about the pressure to get to our assigned camps.
Why was there pressure to get to assigned camps? Day one there was a reason. Why on day two? What's the rush?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
Steve had the lunch assignment for Tuesday and we...began to feel the pressure of passing hours without putting miles behind us...Nearly two hours after we landed at Pungo, Steve showed up.
Why the pressure? Were you in danger of not making the next camp? Why was he two hours behind? This was the day you went 13 miles right?

Let's say you were on the river at 9am, and eating lunch at noon. It took you 3 hours to get there, and it took him 5? That seems odd. I did a trip last summer where my two friends both wanted to fish more than I did, so every day I'd either meet them at the next significant rapid or at camp. Even with me cruising down the river and them fishing every eddy, I'm not sure I was ever 2 hours ahead of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
(Without feeding the Monkey’s on Sunday, we had plenty of leftovers.)
That's pretty snarky. Why would you say that, other than to make Steve look bad?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
I found him...wrestling with the...frame from the cata-raft. I do not recall the reason he thought it need to be adjusted.
(emphasis mine). Why would you say it that way? You're implying there wasn't a good reason, but I'm guessing he wouldn't take his frame apart for no reason.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
...he was frustrated when the frame sunk to the bottom of the river.
Sounds like an exaggeration. Presumably the raft is beached, so one end is likely at most a few inches under water?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
Two hours later, he and I had the cat put back together.
Why were you helping again? Did he ask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
I was asked to take a church group...down the...Snake River in Wyoming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
I was reading a book – “What If God Wrote Your Bucket List” (- Payleitner). My chapter this night was titled “Be Last in Line”. The gist was to surrender to others and let them lead rather than follow. The scripture reference for this chapter was Matthew 20:16 “The first shall be last and the last first”. I get the message and commit to, on Wednesday, let the fishes and Monkey’s experience the river on their own.
You sound like a very religious person. I hope it goes without saying, but presumably you know religion and politics have no place on a boating trip with near strangers?

I suspect if you'd truly "let the fishes and Monkey’s experience the river on their own" that there wouldn't have been as much friction as there was.
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Old 03-01-2019   #25
 
Carbondale, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 126
jaffy are you Steve?!


/s
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Old 03-01-2019   #26
 
Idaho Falls, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1970
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 74
Now that is funny!


Oh, and for the record, I AM an accountant!!!!!!


In the middle of tax returns as I type.


thanks for the laugh.
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Old 03-01-2019   #27
Shapp
 
the grove, Oregon
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,781
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Originally Posted by lyhfamily View Post
Now that is funny!


Oh, and for the record, I AM an accountant!!!!!!


In the middle of tax returns as I type.


thanks for the laugh.
It appears like Steve-O, lyhfamily is also well aquanted with the nose candy.
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Old 03-02-2019   #28
 
boizee, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 203
Haha nice story, thanks for sharing Lanny! I've boated with a couple and heard stories of plenty of "Steve's" over the years. Full disclosure, I know Lanny and have done a MF trip with him, but he was not PH or TL (thank God?:-*). I can attest that he is a very kind person and apparently very tolerant and inclusive, as I am sure my side of the crew gave him plenty of testing.

LH,
My gut reaction is that:

A) Steve is definitely an idiot, or self important, or inconsiderate, or something. Hope his kids turn out but I have faith they will.

B) You were just an invite but perhaps felt the need to step in and run the show based on your experience, and the perception that no one else could do it? Probably correct but did the PH designate you as TL and let the group know? Otherwise you could be seen as a know it all, or manipulative, or control freak.

C) You basically got what your gut, heart, and most importantly your experience told you. You saw the red flags yet went on the trip. And that likely gave you pre-disposed expectations that were queued up. All Steve had to do was start checking your boxes.

D) The fact you changed the logistics of the trip going into about the last week, by busting out early, kinda confirms the above. First off, that is not legal and jeopardizes the PH, plus it puts out the impression you're not a team player. If the church trip was a higher priority then you should have simply backed out of a trip you didn't feel good about in the first place.

E) You get experience right after you need it. Hopefully Steve has more now. Sounds like you already do or wouldn't have posted.

One follow up question. Who was assigned Monday night's dinner?

I mean the above in the spirit that you were truly being introspective and wanted input. Mine may be off base, like I said just going off of gut reaction to limited info/perspective.
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Old 03-03-2019   #29
 
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 73
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Originally Posted by boicatr View Post
E) You get experience right after you need it.
O

I am jotting this one down
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Old 03-03-2019   #30
 
salt lake city, Utah
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 66
Oh man,

"individual kitchen and camp equipment would be provided by each group "

This is bad. Wow.
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