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Lightning

8K views 38 replies 25 participants last post by  BilloutWest 
#1 ·
What are the general thoughts about lightning on the river? Or actual facts. Ha! Is it better to stay on the river? Pull over and get on land away from the boat? I have a lot of experience with lighting in high alpine situations but have never really heard of any rules for the river. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
#2 ·
You're not grounded if you're sitting in a rubber boat on top of the water. I've been in an aluminum row boat in the middle of a lake and had lightning hit less than 50yds away. Aside from making my ears ring and scaring the hell out of me, no worse for wear. I say ride the lightning!

But really - you should probably get off the water if there's a nasty lightning storm, better to be safer than cooked.
 
#4 ·
Lightning is a threat on the river, but even more so when you pull closer to the lightning rods(trees) on the bank. I have a lot more to say about this but it's easier to post a link.

https://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/LSP-HTML/HTML/LightningQuestions~20020716.htm

Just google "lightning rafting site:www.mountainbuzz.com", and you will see the other 10 threads on this subject.

Interesting story of a strike at camp on the GC and a lot of other great information. Much more in-depth than the last link.

https://rrfw.org/RaftingGrandCanyon/Lightning
 
#5 ·
Generally you don't want to be on or near the highest point (mountain top, lone tree in field, only boat on a lake), or in a depression/cave where current can arc. charge will build up at the highest points and then arc if the electric field gets high enough.

Now when on the river you are probably not the highest point or anywhere where stray currents can arc to/through you. If current is traveling through the river it probably won't go up through the boat to you.

safest place is in a hollow metal sphere or barring that a steel vehicle. the reason is that current resides on the surface of a conductor not inside it. think of all those electrons trying to repel each other they stay on the surface.
 
#6 ·
The river is the lowest point in the valley so in theory you should be safer there since lightning seeks the higher points. Regardless, it's out of your hands and when your time is up your time is up, so just do your best to keep your wits about you.

In our neck of the woods, quick lightning onset is often accompanied by hail. I make my decisions on whether to stay on the water or get to the bank based more on what is hammering me the most, be it lightning, hail, rain, or wind on a case by case basis. So ya, there is no rule book.
 
#7 ·
Being in the lowest point, insulated by a rubber or plastic boat, has always seemed a better plan to me then shore. Historically speaking, people who stuck to the river seemed to do better then those who went to land, general concept, not lightning specific, case in point, powells men, for instance. Bit of a religious thing for me anymore, I just feel way safer on the river.
I have gotten shocked sitting in hot springs next to the river, never in my boat so far, knock on wood.
 
#10 ·
I think the boat insulating you from a strike is probably not valid. If lightning strikes your boat, you are the high point. That means the order of being struck is your head, then the boat, unless it originates from the ground. Either way, I don't think you'll be around to tell stories about it later.

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#13 ·
I think the boat insulating you from a strike is probably not valid. If lightning strikes your boat, you are the high point. That means the order of being struck is your head, then the boat, unless it originates from the ground. Either way, I don't think you'll be around to tell stories about it later.
You are right that would not be valid even though plastic is an insulator (so is the air). I meant if current was in the water going from one bank to the other.

and what is this nonsense about when its your time? why even wear a PFD then?
 
#11 · (Edited)
If you do a search on "Lightning" you'll find a couple of other threads on the topic in the first couple of pages. I think the general consensus is that you're probably safer on the river than hanging out under a tree or landing and going further up the shore. The late Charlie Gunn told a story of rowing for hours on the MF in a constant crash bam scare the living shit out of you storm and just getting rained and hailed on. This was while we were rowing Whirlpool Canyon through a sheet of white downpour, lightning every 3 seconds, and hail so bad that we had to put our helmets on. DanOrion and David L were there, while red mud flowed down the slopes into the river and rocks tumbled in along with it all. I'm sure we all had the same thought at some point - "Crap, I'll never be able to get my wife to come on another river trip. Ever."

I still don't think I've ever heard of anyone getting struck by lightning just rowing down the river. If anyone's ever heard of it, let's hear the tale.

When I'm on the river in a lightning storm I usually like to stand up on my drybox on the flatwater and shake my fist at the heavens shouting at the top of my lungs in my best Captain Bly accent, "Is that all you've got!?! How about some hail, huh? I ain't scared o' you!, I ain't scared o'your stinkin', silly lightning, I ain't scared o' nothin! I'll take you and all the lightning you can hurl down at me, c'mon and give it to me!!"

No, not really. I actually just get real religious, keep rowing at a steady pace and hope it clears up before we get to camp and I can pitch the tent and change into new, dry, non-stinky pants...

-AH
 
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#12 ·
I've been through a fair amount on the Jarbidge and Owyhee the times I was there, and we didn't have any close encounters there. Always seemed to hit higher and away from the water at both locations.
There have been times where we have had lightning in the Willamette valley and I was on a river, but our lighting out here is lame compared to the mid west stuff, so you'd most likely laugh your ass off at what I've seen locally on the Clackamas. The stuff in Idaho and Eastern Oregon was a bit scary though.
 
#16 ·
What are your oars made of?.....

I used to work on a fishing boat in the North Atlantic. We had carbon fiber gaffs that were stored vertically along the rails. Right before a strike, they would rattle like hell. Scary noise when you're many miles from land.

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#17 ·
I'm going with the river is the best place to be.

Was on the eagle river and saw/felt a bolt that hit a large tree maybe 100' in front of our raft while floating. Heart skipped a beat from the sonic boom, bolt seemed to be as wide as the tree we were so close.

The bolt hit the tree that was literally rooted in at river level and the section we were in had some rising hills next to the river with other trees and structures. Terrified of lightning ever since.


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#23 ·
This could vary with the water you're on.

pure water is actually an excellent insulator and does not conduct electricity.
Just like the advice to wear shoes in the Colorado River story, don't get in the water or hang a leg over the boat.

Electricity will take the path of least resistance and that could be through metal or a human body. We conduct better than pure water.
 
#25 ·
There have been a few fishermen struck, but they were on large lakes. The ground( as in Earth) reaches up with negitive charged finger to attract lighting. Which ever one is stronger that is were the lightning strikes. So a moving boat in moving water does not normally get struck. A fishing boat out in the middle of a lake, with the fisherman probably fishing some structure that is close to the surface will get in this finger reaching up if that makes since. So the under water structure is a hill top.
 
#26 ·
The size of the water you are on would be a factor. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of a large broad slow moving stretch. From those other links and some dealing with Florida lightning strikes (saying that boating and water activities are statistically the most likely place to be struck) being at or near the bank is the worst.

On one occasion I was in a boat on Banks Lake in Eastern Washinton. A lightning storm came up so we were going to get off the lake. As we were pulling up to the ramp something kind of scary happened. Lightning was hitting all around fairly close. There was a girl standing on the end of the small dock and all of a sudden her long hair all stood up. I mean like straight out from her head. I called to her to maybe crawl back off the dock. Then as we were hitting the ramp my girlfriend who was in the bow had her long hair stand up. She was like "what's happening?" Me: "I think were about to get struck by lightning." We slinked up to the rig until the storm passed and all was good.
 
#28 ·
I will say this, I love seeing lightning when I am out in the wilderness. I've been in a pretty bad wind storm at Elk camp in Ukiah, Oregon listening to trees fall all around our tent. I've been on the Jarbidge when the locals warned us of a flash flood that just happened and then we had torrential downpours and thunder and lightning for the whole trip. We watched a lighting storm pass right over the top of us on the Owyhee. I've been in a few hail storms that made us bail off of the river and get under our boats for protection.
I really love that stuff when it happens, even when I might be scared in the moment. We can feel so isolated and protected in our day to day lives, getting out and being in the midst of the raw, wild power of this earth feels so natural and rewarding. It is all part of the adventure, the memories and stories we get to keep from these trips are a part of who we are. I love it.
 
#32 ·
Quick point on the statement about electricity only traveling on the surface of a conductor. This is only true for AC current. Not that it really matters with lightning because as stated it can arc and travel unpredictably. Only thing I know is if you're on the ground you want both feet together to decrease chances of giving electricity a path through your body. There's some really interesting studies about the amounts of voltage and current it takes to cause harm and how different those number are depending on the path it takes through your body.

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#34 ·
I was on a private run on the upper Colorado many years ago when lightning started up. We were probably 2 miles above State Bridge at the time and could see the strikes on the right bank, up above the railroad tracks.

I hadn't given it that much thought until the hair on my arms started standing up, and I could smell ozone. My boat was an old Udesco with a wood frame and wood oars. The only metal of note was the beer can in my hand and the dozen or so empty beer cans floating in the bilge.

The other boat in our group came up close and was saying we need to get off the water. The only problem was, getting off the water meant getting near some really big pines, and I was saying lets just row, and we were debating if a wet rubber boat qualified as a good ground or a good insulator.

Then it occurred to us that by being so close together we were making for a bigger target. A strike hit maybe 50' from us, between the RR tracks and the water almost next to us, ending discussion for the moment.

Any thoughts of pulling over became a moot point, since we were then rowing so fast any attempt to get off the boat would result in serious injury or even death. We're talking skipping across the water like a flat rock fired from a cannon.

On reflection, we decided that if lightning could hit ground 50' from us, and we were on a moving river sitting on rubber, we were probably safer on the boat than on dry ground. Especially, you know, since there are generally trees, and tall bushes and miles of RR track presenting a much better target.

But, when the hair on my arms stood up and I could smell ozone Mrs. Schutzies son was thinking there were probably some better choices he could have made in his life up to that point.
 
#35 ·
.......

On reflection, we decided that if lightning could hit ground 50' from us, and we were on a moving river sitting on rubber, we were probably safer on the boat than on dry ground. Especially, you know, since there are generally trees, and tall bushes and miles of RR track presenting a much better target.

But, when the hair on my arms stood up and I could smell ozone Mrs. Schutzies son was thinking there were probably some better choices he could have made in his life up to that point.
Its been darkening outside for about an hour. Afternoon in Central Oregon.

I just finished this well told story and one minute later thunder outside.

I must say very well told story.

======

From what I know that wooden framed boat not near those pines was an excellent choice.
 
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