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Old 12-30-2018   #1
 
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Government shutdown

Does anyone know if Lees Fairy is closed to launching Grand Canyon trips?? Just curious....

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Old 12-30-2018   #2
 
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This is what the National Park Service has to say:

"The park’s Backcountry Information Center will be closed. Visitors with previously issued permits for backcountry camping or river trips on the Colorado River may proceed as permitted but no new permits will be issued during this time. Check-in procedures for backcountry campgrounds and Colorado River trips will remain unchanged. "

Yippee-ki-yay!
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Old 12-31-2018   #3
 
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I'm curious. Are all the people responsible for patrolling the river, not working? If so, I wonder what could possibly happen if you are on the river without a permit.
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Old 12-31-2018   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bystander View Post
I'm curious. Are all the people responsible for patrolling the river, not working? If so, I wonder what could possibly happen if you are on the river without a permit.

River patrols are done by the backcountry rangers. They don't get furloughed -- they're considered essential.
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Old 12-31-2018   #5
 
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The state of AZ is keeping it open - but not sure if that includes trip launches.
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Old 01-02-2019   #6
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Yes trips are launching. The state has funded the park through the shutdown. So if you have an issued permit you can launch, they are not issuing new permits though so if you need to change your permit to add people it will not be allowed. Your permit is issued 3 months out, so all the January boaters should have their permit issued as it was issued when you paid 3 months prior to your launch. Again though, if you added 3 people over the holiday they are not issuing new permits so those 3 additional people probably won't get to launch. If you lost people on your permit, you should be able to still launch with your old permit since all they really care about is your money when you add more people, they do not refund you for people dropping out.

As for rangers on the river, I don't believe there have been river rangers on the Colorado in the Grand Canyon National Park for months. They are at the put in, and on the trails, but in spring when the big sex abuse scandal broke, ranger trips on the river were halted. Not sure if they were started back up or not... As for safety, the choppers are flying through the shutdown as well.

Anyway, there would be a ranger at Lee's so putting on without a permit could still be an issue. There may be rangers at Phantom as well. I guess you could risk it, but it's a big risk as you'll probably be banned from going on any future trip if you are caught, and I'd guess you'd be caught since it's not that easy to launch quickly with an 18ft raft and 20 days of gear, plus your vehicle will be sitting in their lot so they'll know who you are... The effort it would take to launch at night, quickly with another driver taking your vehicle sounds like more effort than it's worth.

Have fun out there, screw the Govt and go rafting!
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Old 01-02-2019   #7
 
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P the K's response is mistaken on at least a couple of points:
1) No, your permit is not "issued 3 months out" - that's when your participant list is due, together with "final" payment ($100 per participant). As long as you have room under your ceiling (8 total participants for small trips, 16 for regular) you can change the names and add participants up to 14 days before launch (but you pay an additional $100 for additions - not name changes). Only the permit holder can make changes. Your permit is actually issued - so you can print it and bring to the Ferry - 2 weeks before your launch date.
2) The "sex abuse scandal" broke in 2016, was addressed by the new Park Superintendent last year (2017), and there most definitely is a new LE ("law enforcement") river unit in place and working. We had a patrol pass us at Tuckup on May 11 last year (201. LE personnel are generally considered "essential" during shutdowns, how many of the newly constituted river unit are working today I don't know - none are getting paid, although past practice is all will once Drumpf's shutdown is over.
Yes, emergency evac personnel are still in place and working (again, if deemed "essential").
I spent 27+ years working for "the government" all over the world, and have 40+ trips in the Grand since 1970. "Screw the Govt" is just inarticulate and dumb, and contributes nothing to a dialogue. You want to do without "the Govt" - which paves your roads, provides for the national defense, and regulates silly things like food safety and water quality (less and less in the last 2 years, maybe pay attention to the consequences...) - propose an alternative.
For anyone launching while Drumpf's temper tantrum/shutdown continues, call the Park if you have questions. The River Unit HQ is now in Flagstaff but there is a working phone @ "the Fairy" (OP - I love that name!). Permit issues may still be resolved through Flag, and yes, there is still a ranger to check you out as of a few days ago..
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Old 01-02-2019   #8
 
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River patrol passed us @ Tuckup on May 11,2018, don't know why that silly emoji was inserted....
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Old 01-03-2019   #9
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B4otter thanks for the corrections, but I still believe that if you've paid for your permit and claimed that 13 total participants are going, you will not be able to change your permit and add additional participants even if your permit allows 16 people. This will require a re-issuance of your permit and that is currently not happening. The GCNP put out a statement right before the shutdown stating that they were not issuing new permits during the shutdown and that if your permit was issued before the shutdown you will be able to launch. I'd be surprised if you originally paid for 13 people on your permit and showed up with 16 if they'd let the 3 additional spots go...

You can change your participant list up to the day of launch basically, but that is very different than the permit they issue you 3 months out from your launch when your permit fees are due.

As for screw the govt, that's a joke, I obviously need roads to get to the river, I mean screw worrying about this dysfunction and quibbling and go boating instead.
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Old 01-03-2019   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B4otter View Post
P the K's response is mistaken on at least a couple of points:
1) No, your permit is not "issued 3 months out" - that's when your participant list is due, together with "final" payment ($100 per participant). As long as you have room under your ceiling (8 total participants for small trips, 16 for regular) you can change the names and add participants up to 14 days before launch (but you pay an additional $100 for additions - not name changes). Only the permit holder can make changes. Your permit is actually issued - so you can print it and bring to the Ferry - 2 weeks before your launch date.
2) The "sex abuse scandal" broke in 2016, was addressed by the new Park Superintendent last year (2017), and there most definitely is a new LE ("law enforcement") river unit in place and working. We had a patrol pass us at Tuckup on May 11 last year (201. LE personnel are generally considered "essential" during shutdowns, how many of the newly constituted river unit are working today I don't know - none are getting paid, although past practice is all will once Drumpf's shutdown is over.
Yes, emergency evac personnel are still in place and working (again, if deemed "essential").
I spent 27+ years working for "the government" all over the world, and have 40+ trips in the Grand since 1970. "Screw the Govt" is just inarticulate and dumb, and contributes nothing to a dialogue. You want to do without "the Govt" - which paves your roads, provides for the national defense, and regulates silly things like food safety and water quality (less and less in the last 2 years, maybe pay attention to the consequences...) - propose an alternative.
For anyone launching while Drumpf's temper tantrum/shutdown continues, call the Park if you have questions. The River Unit HQ is now in Flagstaff but there is a working phone @ "the Fairy" (OP - I love that name!). Permit issues may still be resolved through Flag, and yes, there is still a ranger to check you out as of a few days ago..

Trump's tantrum? Didn't the Dems promise border wall funding when he signed the CR in March/April? Tell me why the Dems are soooo against border security and in favor of sanctuary cities? Don't you think it would be wise to monitor who is coming in/out of our country? Didn't the Dems authorize a wall in 2006 along with the Repubs? Go listen to past comments by Schumer, Pelosi and Obama on border security all agreed until it became Trump's campaign promise. This is purely a political stunt by the Dems.
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