Browns Canyon NM camping management - Page 3 - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 05-01-2019   #21
 
lmyers's Avatar
 
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,759
Ok, I am going to bump this one more time.

Seems that there are a few individuals that want to continue to push for the option of a free, first - come, first - served camping register at the National Monument boundary within Browns Canyon.

If successful they will have only included it in the scoping process as one of the options for the public to vote on. If I could get a little more feedback, should I put pressure against including this option? I am currently the only "private" boater involved in talks. Most of the individuals are either commercial raft company owners, or previously owned a company. It will open to public input very soon, but I want to stay on top of it now. If this is an option the private boating community does or doesn't want to see, I need to know so I can pass that on.

I have been in touch with CW and PPWC, and plan to reach out to AW asap.

lmyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-01-2019   #22
 
GeoRon's Avatar
 
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1974
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 457
There are no excellent and totally enjoyable places to boat camp along the Arkansas especially within the NM for privates to enjoy. Stay away

Humm, maybe that is not the right thing to say. I hate to think that I'll never camp at those special places again because they are "owned" by the commercials.

How might the community BEST feed into what is required. I admit I've not had time to follow this thread. Frankly, I did not see it until just now. Please summarize line item your best approach to what is required.
GeoRon is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019   #23
 
lmyers's Avatar
 
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,759
At this point all that I'm asking for is your opinion. Do you think a free, self-serve campsite register serves to benefit private boaters in any fashion? Those who are suggesting the idea want something comparable to the register at the Chukar Trail for the Gunny Gorge.

Discussions are still occurring behind closed doors, but I will make sure to inform the users of this forum when public scoping does open (most likely within the next couple weeks).
lmyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 05-02-2019   #24
 
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,726
lmyers,

Thank you for spending your time working on this issue and reporting it here.

While I have never camped on the actual ARK during a multi day float, since ark day trips work best for me. I camp at the Forest Service or commercial camps up and down the ARK.

I am sure there are other Buzz folks who do.

From personal experience I know working on committees like this one, takes a lot of personal time.

Much appreciated as the ARK area is one of my most liked rivers and BV and Salida are boater friendly towns for sure. Plus your posts let us general public boaters give our input to the decision makers when that is appropriate.
okieboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019   #25
 
mr. compassionate's Avatar
 
conifer, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmyers View Post
At this point all that I'm asking for is your opinion. Do you think a free, self-serve campsite register serves to benefit private boaters in any fashion? Those who are suggesting the idea want something comparable to the register at the Chukar Trail for the Gunny Gorge.

Discussions are still occurring behind closed doors, but I will make sure to inform the users of this forum when public scoping does open (most likely within the next couple weeks).

Hello and thanks for being the voice of the private boaters in this process! In all the years and runs through this area I have never been shut out on finding a camping spot through Browns or surrounding sections of river, even mid summer when all the Ruby and Hecla spots are full. Camp river right above Zoom has always been open as a matter of fact I've rarely seen anyone else overnight camp on the river.






I would like to see the current arrangement of first come first serve continue.
mr. compassionate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019   #26
 
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 903
Ditto previous post.

I'll add that the commercial groups are generally larger than mine on overnighters, thus there are a lot more options available.

With the pressure for overnight permits growing throughout the west, we will see a continued increase in overnight use in BCNM. It could be inevitable that a permit system becomes necessary in the future, but my opinion is no action is needed for now.

It would be a travesty if the commercial interests are the only voices expressed during these talks, so thanks for your participation. Hit me up if I can be of help now or in the future.
DoStep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019   #27
 
Tom Martin's Avatar
 
Flagstaff, Arizona
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 920
Hi Logan, thank you for continuing to keep this issue on the front burner!

There are so many options, from no camping for any river runners to assigned camping for all river runners.

The paddling community does not want to see more regulations for regulations sake. But, the paddling community is sensitive to resource protection and river congestion.

It seems the first step is to get data. How many camps are there, and how often are they used? Are there existing conflicts? If not, end of story, and no-change might work a little longer.

Assigned camps have pro's and cons, with the best assigned camps often going to the river-tour-companies.

Given the seasonal nature of the river-tour-companies, seasonal variation may be an option. Meaning in all but June-July-Aug, it's first come first served. In the three months of highest campsite use, there is some sort of sign up.

But, if there is a sign-up, it has to be protected from folks signing up ahead of time to snag a camp for their river-tour business.

There is much good in first-come-first-serve, but folks can send a paddle boat down to snag a campsite.

It is a big issue, and I am glad to see you are keeping it front and canter.

Cordially yours, Tom Martin
Tom Martin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019   #28
 
Andy H.'s Avatar
 
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,596
Logan,

Thanks for all the effort you're putting into this. As one who regularly camps on Browns during the summer, I agree with Mr. C (never thought I'd say that!) and others who favor first-come, first served system currently in place.

Tom - Even though you're writing (have finished?) a guidebook on the Ark, I suspect you've never camped on Brown's and probably don't know as much as locals about the rest of the river. Here's what happens on Brown's: The commercial outfitters typically send down a gear boat in the morning and snag one of several large campsites, such as Hippo Rock, Brown's Creek, or the large, flat camp about a half mile below the footbridge. Their swampers set up camp and the group comes down in the afternoon and camps there. You can get outraged about this usurpation of public lands by the commercials, but as one who regularly camps there, I know the drill and I'm fine with it. There are plenty of other campsites on the river corridor.

I've never been shut out of a campsite as I know plenty of spots and don't plan on camping where I know the outfitters will be. When camping I also don't continue past where the RR crosses over the river since camping below there is pretty limited.

I oppose a sign-up system because:

1) There's no need for it,
2) I think sign-ups will be hit-or-miss and result in confusion we and conflicts without going to a full permit system (which I hope we can avoid),

I agree with the regulations for firepans and waste removal, and would like to see AHRA patrol early on weekend mornings to check campsites and enforce these rules and issue citations.

Thanks again,

-AH
__________________
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
Andy H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019   #29
 
Tom Martin's Avatar
 
Flagstaff, Arizona
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 920
Hi Andy, I see we disagree. To my way of thinking, sending a commercial boat ahead to snag a camp is bogus. I thank you for stating you think that is just dandy. When do-it-yourself boaters get bumped out of campsites all the way to Hecla, I hope they remember you post here.



Thank you for asking about the Ark RiverMap Guide. Yes, it is out on a river near you and feedback is very positive. I will never know as much about the Ark as you, and quickly admit it. But I do know that simple river guidebooks can help when it comes to leveling the river playing field...



Cordially yours, Tom
Tom Martin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2019   #30
 
lmyers's Avatar
 
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,759
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Martin View Post
It seems the first step is to get data. How many camps are there, and how often are they used? Are there existing conflicts? If not, end of story, and no-change might work a little longer.

Thank you guys for the responses. This is the exact type of feedback I need.

In response to your question/statement above Tom, the issue is time. The AHRA has statistics on the numbers of commercials that camp overnight in Browns, but there are currently no baseline numbers for overnight private trips. My personal experience leads me to believe they are on the increase....

but more importantly, the executive order from President Trump eliminating BLM's planning 2.0 process, and the secretarial order from former Department of the Interior director Zinke to streamline the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) has left us with a 30 day scoping period in which the BLM and Forest Service will accept public comment. That includes the stakeholder group I am working with, but we have been studying and discussing the management plan alternatives for a couple months now. However, it has just recently come to light that commercials prefer the registration option and want it to be a "recommendation" from our stakeholder group. By getting this type of feedback I can come back to them and say "this many private boaters from around the state and region have expressed they either support it or oppose it for xxxxx reasons."
lmyers is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
browns, browns canyon

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Bureau of Land Management Releases the Proposed Resource Management Plan BLM_CRVFO Partner's Forum 0 04-03-2014 10:22 AM
Car Camping near Lower Taos Box, NM GearDog Kayaking | Trip Planner 12 01-13-2011 08:04 AM
Ski resort camping in Co. Calif, Utah, NM, Wyo?? iskiwinterpark Winter Buzz 1 11-15-2009 10:21 PM
Camping above and in Browns Canyon bfelse Whitewater Kayaking 9 06-17-2009 01:39 PM
Where to go camping and rafting in Browns Canyon? mongo Whitewater Rafting 5 02-04-2006 11:14 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.