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Old 11-10-2008   #1
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Your Government & Money

I'd like to keep the economic debate and discussion and awareness going. As deep throat said, "Follow the money."

Today, disturbing news about the Fed and the Treasury being secretive about 2 trillion dollars of loans.

Linky:
Quote:
The Federal Reserve is refusing to identify the recipients of almost $2 trillion of emergency loans from American taxpayers or the troubled assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.
Not cool. God bless Bloomberg (news) for filing suit using Freedom of Information. Read the whole article if you're interested in hearing some disturbing talking points out of the Fed, and by house whatever committee chair Barney Frank... I wasn't happy about it at all.

Secrecy is what got us into this mess.

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Old 11-10-2008   #2
 
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Hmmmm... the same groups of people who got us into this mess are the same groups of people who are telling us that they have the solution to fix this mess. Simply put this is like the heroin addict telling his AA group that he has the solution to fixing his addiction and doesn't need outside advice. I mean, how insane is it that the same people who raped, pillaged... okay, okay... I mean, "mismanaged" the banking system are given more money to fix the problem they created.

And, yes, Obama is now appointing some of these same people to head up his economic team (besides Buffett). Meanwhile, the economic professors who predicted that this was happening long ago are being marginalized and their ideas are ignored.

The solution - at least the one that is being given to the bewildered herd - is taking $700 billion in money that we don't have and borrowing it from the Fed - which is NOT a federal bank, but a private bank that is owned and operated for profit by the very same groups of people who tell us they have the solution. The US taxpayer then pays interest on the $700 billion which will be pocketed by the very same people who helped to create the mess and who also CREATED THE MONEY OUT OF THIN AIR! And, finally, the principle on the loan will be paid to these same people who created the money out of thin air.

Wow! What a great racket. I'm quite certain that this minority of bank owners are laughing hysterically at how fucking stupid the bewildered herd really is.

Quote:
“The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered” -Thomas Jefferson

Furthermore, the FED is violating the Constitution. When it was first created they stayed within the bounds of the Constitution, but ever since 1971 when Nixon took us off the gold standard they have been operating in direct violation of the Constitution... see below.

US Constitution Article I, Section 10: No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

No other nation in the history of mankind has ever successfully made a fiat monetary system work. It has been tried many many different times throughout the thousands of years of history and it has always failed.

The levels of debt are out o control...

Check out this link Crash Course Chapter 6: What Is Money? | Chris Martenson
This guy does a great job of explaining -simply - the monetary system. Chapters 6, 7, 8, and 9 are just about the money system. But, it is well worth watching all of the chapters.
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Old 11-11-2008   #3
 
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Here is another one for the pile of crimes.

A Quiet Windfall For U.S. Banks
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Old 11-11-2008   #4
 
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I hear ya Marko. Unfortunately your "America the Illiterate" post is the reason this will never get fixed. Even for relatively educated voters, the workings of the Fed and fiat currency system is more than people can wrap their heads around. On the other hand, sound bites like "No more tax cuts for Fortune 500 CEO's" is something people can get behind and elect a leader based upon. Unfortunately that does nothing to fix the problem so we will continue down the same path of self destruction.

I find it interesting that strings like this don't generate much debate indicating that either (1) everyone agrees that the Fed should be abolished and we should go back on the gold standard so there's nothing to debate or (2) it hurts peoples head too much to think about it so they don't and go back to arguing about inconsequential crap. If it's the former, why hasn't the Fed been abolished yet? If it's the later, we're screwed.
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Old 11-11-2008   #5
 
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Like John McCain, I dunno much about that economics stuff. I'm fine on economic philosophy, but the details of the financial bailout are a bit beyond my grasp. I "get" the secrecy and bullshit that's going on, but I don't feel comfortable (or knowledgeable) with the details. So I'm a #2 in Blutski's pigeonholing... with some caveats.
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Old 11-11-2008   #6
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Economics is the most complex subject human beings ever created. I don't think anyone really knows. I think being on the gold standard at least gave us a chance at knowing...
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Old 11-11-2008   #7
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"Economics is the most complex subject human beings ever created. I don't think anyone really knows."

Economics, defined as providing ones self/family/community with material sustenance is actually pretty simple to grasp. Finance capitalism tied to a nationalistic/global economic system on the other hand is not.

At bottom, any version of an insanely complex economic system which most people do not understand is required to rob a people of the ability to sustain themselves sustainably. Self determination be damned.

The current crisis is a rare opportunity to peek behind the curtain and see the Great Oz at work maintaining financial "order" and ask - who needs this crap? Answer - Warren Buffett, T.B Bone Pickens, and the other ubermenchen who stay filthy rich feeding off the work of the Great and Powerful Oz Who Creates and Maintains the Global System of Nation-State Based Finance Capitalism through vast arrays of bureaucrats, domestic wealth police, and armies crusading into foreign lands.
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Old 11-11-2008   #8
 
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Quote:
Unfortunately your "America the Illiterate" post is the reason this will never get fixed. Even for relatively educated voters, the workings of the Fed and fiat currency system is more than people can wrap their heads around.


Blutzski, I agree.

If anybody wants to learn more about the Federal Reserve watch this free google video. It's long but has tons of incredible information. If you are looking for it to be "entertaining" you will not like it and I suggest that you go back to sleep, but if you watch it for the educational value you will like it. money masters - Google Video


If you want to understand the early beginnings of international bankers then look up the Rothschild family.


“If Congress has a right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.” - President Andrew Jackson. He said this after he voted against the charter renewal of the first Bank of America (another privately controlled bank) in 1811. After Jackson voted against the banks renewal Nathan Rothschild, of the Bank of England, and a part of the first Bank of America issued an ultimatum: “Either the application for the renewal of the charter is granted, or the United States will find itself involved in a most disastrous war.” Rothschildwent on to write,“Teach these impudent Americans a lesson. Bring them back to Colonial status.” Within one year the War of 1812 had begun between the US and England.


More quotes:

“All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise, not from defects in the Constitution, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation.” - President John Adams

“I have two great enemies, the Southern army in front of me and the bankers in the rear. And of the two, the bankers are my greatest foe.” Abe Lincoln

“If the people of the nation understood our banking and monetary system, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.” Henry Ford
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Old 11-11-2008   #9
 
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Quote:
“If Congress has a right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use by themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.” - President Andrew Jackson. He said this after he voted against the charter renewal of the first Bank of America (another privately controlled bank) in 1811. After Jackson voted against the banks renewal Nathan Rothschild, of the Bank of England, and a part of the first Bank of America issued an ultimatum: “Either the application for the renewal of the charter is granted, or the United States will find itself involved in a most disastrous war.” Rothschildwent on to write,“Teach these impudent Americans a lesson. Bring them back to Colonial status.” Within one year the War of 1812 had begun between the US and England.
Sorry, I completely messed up this paragraph. The Andrew Jackson quote is out of place. The rest of what I wrote in the above paragraph is supposed to be in the context of a James Madison quote, which is this... "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance." What is interesting is that Madison was against Alexander Hamilton and the First Bank of America but eventually reversed his position and supported the charter for the Second Bank of America in 1815.


The Andrew Jackson quote was in regards to his fight against the charter renewal of the Second Bank of America (also a private bank) throught the 1830's.



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Old 11-12-2008   #10
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Did you see where American Express is becoming a bank? It sounds like they are doing this so they can get some bank bailout money. Classic BS.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/12/news...ion=2008111208
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