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Old 01-07-2009   #1
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Warning: VERY disturbing Gaza photo



Quote:
(Photo: Palestinians evacuate the dead body of a child from in the rubble of a four story house that collapsed when struck by an Israeli air strike on January. 6, 2009 in Gaza City, Gaza Strip. By Thair Hasani/Getty.)
Horrible. Awful. This is the face of war, and my heart breaks at man's inhumanity to man when I see it. I'm sickened.

I have two short points.

First, this is what war does, inevitably. War is not surgical, no matter how hard our 21st century technology attempts to make it so.

Second: For Israel (and by proxy, the United States) this death is accidental and regretable. For terrorists, this death is glorious and noble - this is whom they target.

Finally, some commentary about Hamas's strategy of asymmetrical warfare:

Quote:
One story the media isn't telling, because it's impossible to get this story in these circumstances (especially because Israel stupidly won't allow foreign reporters into Gaza) is how much resentment the Hamas policy of using Palestinians as human shields causes among Gaza civilians. Early reports indicate that Hamas mortar teams were firing from the UN School. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

One more thing, speaking of pornography -- we've all seen endless pictures of dead Palestinian children now. It's a terrible, ghastly, horrible thing, the deaths of children, and for the parents it doesn't matter if they were killed by accident or by mistake. But ask yourselves this: Why are these pictures so omnipresent?
I'll tell you why, again from firsthand, and repeated, experience: Hamas (and the Aksa Brigades, and Islamic Jihad, the whole bunch) prevents the burial, or even preparation of the bodies for burial, until the bodies are used as props in the Palestinian Passion Play. Once, in Khan Younis, I actually saw gunmen unwrap a shrouded body, carry it a hundred yards and position it atop a pile of rubble -- and then wait a half-hour until photographers showed. It was one of the more horrible things I've seen in my life. And it's typical of Hamas. If reporters would probe deeper, they'd learn the awful truth of Hamas. But Palestinian moral failings are not of great interest to many people.
I cite Jeffrey with the photograph above because a) the abuse of dead bodies by Hamas is another variant of their disgusting radicalism, b) Hamas does stage photographs, c) given their military inferiority, these photographs are also in some ways a weapon. The photograph was taken by Thair Hasani. Hasani is a Getty photographer and it is part of a series that certainly looks legit. But I cannot vouch for its authenticity, and I doubt that's possible given the restrictions on reporting from Gaza. Nonetheless, this girl is dead and buried. She is a human being.

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Old 01-07-2009   #2
 
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this photo makes me very sad inside. this is the reason why the radicals need hanged everyone of them. they don't know anything but there current path. they are unrelenting because to them they are doing it for a greater good. the best soulution for there eternal suffering would be to keep them locked up at a prison until they die of old age. how cannot arrest these people when they are martyers. theres only one other way to get rid of them. the jews don't want to wipe out the muslims, the muslims want to wipe out the jews.
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Old 01-07-2009   #3
 
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Mike - there are absolutely Jewish extremists who want to wipe out the Muslims.
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Old 01-07-2009   #4
 
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really steven show me. unless you are trying to talk about the isreali government as radicals. wanting to wipe out and attempting to wipe out are two different things steve. i have never heard of a jewish martyer.

whats your deal for sticking up for hamas and iran?

hamas is setting up the situation, do you believe it noble to hide behind civilian children? do you believe its noble to fire rockets at isreal from school building where civilians are located.

its like the man gone crazy who robbes a bank and takes a secretary as hostage. does that man who has a knife at the civialian and firing rounds at police and using her as a sheild deserve to live no. are we not going to do something and let it continue? no
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Old 01-07-2009   #5
 
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really steven show me. unless you are trying to talk about the isreali government as radicals. wanting to wipe out and attempting to wipe out are two different things steve. i have never heard of a jewish martyer.
The Shin Bet, Israelís secret police, have a department dedicated to tracking the activities of Jewish terrorists. Think they don't exist? Think again. Israeli intelligence knows they exist, and they are working to stop them.


Baruch Goldstein massacred 29 praying Palestinians at the Cave of the Patriarchs in the West Bank town of Hebron in an effort to eliminate the blasphemous presence of Muslim. He is "celebrated" as a martyr by Israeli extremists.
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Old 01-07-2009   #6
 
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isreali intelligence is trying to stop jewish extremist. why isn't iran trying to stop hamas i made my point once again.

i ask again whats your deal for sticking up for hamas and iran?
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Old 01-07-2009   #7
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this is the reason why the radicals need hanged everyone of them. they don't know anything but there current path. they are unrelenting because to them they are doing it for a greater good.
Organizations like the KKK, Army of God and other Christian organizations have moved forward with the same agenda. Many people justify atrocities by saying they are doing bad things for a good cause. Disturbing but not new in any way.
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Old 01-07-2009   #8
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CM & DS:

No one, with the possible exception of myself (due to my self-admitted 'superior' intellect), can defend Israel or Hamas without hypocrisy on some shibboleth or another (it's big word Wednesday).

This is why I say that hypocrisy is a survival mechanism. That's another philosophy to explain in another point.

For me the point is in the aggregate: Who has more claim to reasonable standards of conduct?

Israel is, as a nation, not committed to the inferiority (let alone destruction) of Islam! Hamas (which should not be equated to Palestine as a whole entity) can't say the same.

Another one of my guiding philosophies as a libertarian is that the only thing toward which we must be intolerant is intolerance to let others exist in peace.

But I put this picture up as a reminder of human nature, and of hypocrisy:

There IS no morality that justifies what happened to this little girl. As William Munny says in the Clint Eastwood flick "Unforgiven":
Quote:
It's a helluva thing killin a man. You take away everything he has - and everything he's ever gonna have.
This girl will never be ... she will never laugh and never cry again. Any dream she had, events rendered them all fantasy in the end. Moot.

Only humans are capable of inhumanity...
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Old 01-07-2009   #9
 
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While Israel as a state is not known for exercising the best judgment in response to the Palestinian "problem," it is not monolithic. Even though the Israeli hawks keep thinking that they can shoot and bomb into submission their outgunned enemies this time, Israel is trying to keep control of its foreign and domestic policy by letting its military, and not uncontrolled Jewish martyrs, do the dirty work. Hamas supports letting anyone do its dirty work, as it is fully aware that it doesn't have a chance of gaining total control, and its ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel.

Despite the comments of its madcap leader, Ahmadinejad, I don't think Iran truly wants Israel wiped off the map. Ol' diney may have said so, but that's his job as an inflammatory firgurehead. The real power rests with Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and he hasn't said anything about moving against Israel, unless I've missed something. Israel is an incredibly effective lightning rod for Arab and Muslim support and sympathy for Palestine and Palestine's allies, ie Iran, so all Iran has to do is keep the conflict simmering away, and "hey presto!," they've got positive PR among their neighbors.
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Old 01-07-2009   #10
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Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
i have never heard of a jewish martyer.
What about Jesus?

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Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
whats your deal for sticking up for hamas and iran?

It surprises me that everyone only talks about the US role as collateral to what is happening over there. The US started it by stepping in to "give" Israel their land even though it didn't belong to us. Since then we have supplied them with military capabilities rivaling our own.
1. I still don't understand why we took their side in the first place unless it was simply to ally them against other Middle Eastern nations.
2. The solution should and maybe has to come from them DS, but since God promised the land to both of them and we only promised it to Israel, we have to help them find a solution.
3. Genocide and specifically dead children is never acceptable or understandable to me. I am not necessarily a defender of Israel because I don't feel they have any more right to that land than the Palestinians, but the US has a responsibility to step in and stop what we started.
4. We have no problem stepping in to remove Hussein and other leaders who commit atrocities against their people as long as they have something we want (oil), why can't we stop the obvious genocide going on in Gaza, or at least pay the idea lip service?
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