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Old 03-28-2009   #1
 
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someone please explain this to me.

Scary. (Video)

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Old 03-28-2009   #2
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Interesting to see it done without any qualms.

It's "Shareholder Ethics."
It's early Industrialization-era thinking that ALL that matters is that private investors receive maximum return on their investment. A company is under no other moral/ethical obligation than to make money.

Its counter, and more modern ethical standard is "Stakeholder Ethics."
In Stakeholder Ethics, the thinking is that everyone associated with the company in any meaningful way (or to the hard core, in any way at all) needs to receive an appropriate benefit for interacting with the company. Profit still matters (no company can be in business to lose money, after all), but so too does doing greater good than just profit. So if you're a customer, you deserve quality. If you're an employee, you deserve adequate benefits ('adequate' being a point of contention). In particular, if you are the community in which the company does business, you should see a net benefit from the company (it helps build the community in meaningful ways).

The Stakeholder Ethical standard is gaining momentum. Companies like you see in the video, well, word is getting out, however slowly. And ultimately it really is up to the consumer to reward good behavior and punish bad. Shop Whole Foods, not Walmart, you know? But how many of us do that? (I'm certainly below where I ethically think I oughta be)

In particular, when you are a Stakeholder company and have to compete with Shareholder companies, you can find yourself at a disadvantage. The problem with ethics, as I'm sure Theo can attest from his unique (and respectable) education, is that they matter most when things are most difficult. And as I remind everyone: Hypocrisy is a survival mechanism to our species.

Fortunately in the long view, unethical practices tend to lead to societal failures, and societal failures produce stronger ethical motivations. However, this cycle takes centuries, not lifetimes.
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Old 03-29-2009   #3
 
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WOW... that video is crazy! I guarantee most investors have no idea this is going on. I know for a fact that the 35 or so investors in my company would want their money back if I ever instituted a policy biased against American prospects for a particular job position. I agree with Helio, unbelievable candor. Hell, I've known of and worked for some businesses who operate secretly this way, but I am shocked by this blatant "presentation" of loopholes.

Well, I guess you can just look around you. From the looks of things here in Summit, it must be down right impossible to find qualified American applicants!? I mean, I'm all for hot European women working everywhere you go, but give me a break, there aren't any girls from say... Iowa or Michigan that want to sell shoes or work as tellers in the banks around here? Front range 20 somethings for that matter?
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Old 03-30-2009   #4
 
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I think I can explain this....

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbuilds View Post
I think I can explain this, as could any other buzzards out there who drive toyotas, shop at wal-mart, paddle a bliss-stick, have non local or foreign fabric, foods, goods, or products in their home.

We are naturally driven to survive, both as individuals and as companies, in fact most CEOs, CFOs, and what ever that guy is are hired, instructed and paid more for doing exactly what they are doing. Just as some out there might get paid with a vacation every year or two, because they did not buy purely local goods. Shop a wal-mart or king sooper all year in stead of investing in a local network of food providers all year, and you might get your vacation. You justify it because they can do it for less money, leading to you investing less effort and they ultimately do it better than you could given all of your time....bringing together the food for you that is.

Some might buy a Toyota because they have been told it lasts longer, or is more reliable, or starts quicker, when they have many cheaper native brands. So even at the same price, not all summit county workers are created equal. What would most Toyota buyers do if the govt said they had to test drive at least 3 Registered American cars and provide proof before buying a Toyota? Do you think someone would start a company giving seminars on how to best get around or "accomplish" their obligations?

This meeting is a byproduct of the artificial concept of minimum wage and the theory that all Americans can have high paying, high education jobs.

This company wanted to hire foreign workers, the government told them exactly what they had to do in order to do it and this guy was charged with instructing other branches of the company on how to meet the government mandated proceedure.

I am not saying it is all good, but this is all by legislative design. We have told our representatives to make us feel like they have regulations to restrict the use of foreign workers...and they did just that. We have not told our reps to close the boarders, nor should we.

I am saying that those afraid of competetion by their neighbor or someone halfway around the world are either not good at what they do or are overpaid already, either way, they are in a position to be out competed..and will be eventually either way.
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Old 03-31-2009   #5
 
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ok, I am learning.

thanks,

bob
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Old 03-31-2009   #6
 
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Ill-gotten-gain is wrong, whether it is illegal, or not.
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Old 03-31-2009   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakrafter View Post
We are naturally driven to survive, both as individuals and as companies, in fact most CEOs, CFOs, and what ever that guy is are hired, instructed and paid more for doing exactly what they are doing.
Companies/corporations are constructs, they are not beings and have no natural attributes. Separating them from the humans that run them, give them perceived life separate from the rest of us, which tends to validate and justify their ills.

Let's keep in mind that it is not the "company" which desires to maximize shareholder profits, it is the board, the ceo, the shareholders, etc, which desire to maximize their profits. The people are making the choice.

I point this out because all too often the corps/companies tend to be treated as if they are living beings that have inherent needs and direction. They do not. They operate under the rules which the people in charge create. We don't need to accept their unethical business practices as inherently natural to a corporation, as those are just the characteristics of those that are in charge. Unethical behavior is that of people, and we should not accept it or acquiesce to it.

It is time that the point Helio makes is more widely adopted. But given the challenges the feder bill to make employee organizing more private, I am skeptical we'll see such changes coming down the pike. I expect more fear, more favor to corps (they create the jobs! right, like the slaveholders did the slaves favors by making them slaves-wrong), less workers rights.
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