Say what you will about Chavez and Venezuela, but.... - Mountain Buzz
 

Go Back   Mountain Buzz > Other Chatter > The Eddy


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 02-17-2009   #1
 
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 861
Say what you will about Chavez and Venezuela, but....

... the report linked below shows that the Bolivarian Revolution seems to be working.




This economic report and analysis takes a look at the economic and social indicators of the past 10 years of the Chavez admin.
The CEPR is a non-partisan think tank located in D.C.

The whole report is worth reading, but the summary highlights can give you a good overview as well.

The current US propaganda campaign against Chavez is a bunch of bullcrap, IMO. The new news about him is that he just pushed through unlimited terms for Venezuelan politicians -including himself. The Washington Post also describes Chavez as authoritarian.

The Post says, “President Hugo Chávez persuaded Venezuelans today to end term limits through a referendum that allows him to rule far into the 21st century to complete his socialist transformation of this oil-rich country.”

What the author of this article forgets to say is that the people of Venezuela(54%) voted in favor of this. And, reports from non-US media show that the Referendum Campaign was a lively debate between the supporters and the opponents of this referendum. Here is one story explaining what they witnessed...

So, when the Post says "persuaded" what does the American reader think? Are Venezuelans voting in favor of this because of fear of a dictator? Or, are they voting in favor because of the good things Chavez has done for the people and the country, which the linked report shows?

--

marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-17-2009   #2
 
Riparian's Avatar
 
Little Village, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,350
Chavez won the referendum by utilizing the state television network and massive government spending. While he does enjoy huge popular support among the poor, and has done some good things for his constituents, he remains a twit. No question that we (especially under Bush) engaged in a propaganda war with Chavez, but championing him strikes me as a stretch.
Riparian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009   #3
 
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riparian View Post
Chavez won the referendum by utilizing the state television network and massive government spending. While he does enjoy huge popular support among the poor, and has done some good things for his constituents, he remains a twit. No question that we (especially under Bush) engaged in a propaganda war with Chavez, but championing him strikes me as a stretch.

I wouldn't say I am "championing" Chavez. To me, he is just another person trying to maintain his power.

I am more impressed with the economic report that analyzes his socialist policies. (it's pretty impressive that poverty was reduced BY HALF in 10 years) Check out the numbers, look past your personal feelings about Chavez, and get back to me.
marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-17-2009   #4
 
Riparian's Avatar
 
Little Village, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,350
I just skimmed through the Executive Summary. Chavez has made some impressive positive economic and social changes in his country. Particularly impressive for such a clown!

Guess I can't put aside my personal feelings about him, but I definitely didn't know that he had made such progress. Thanks for the info.
Riparian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009   #5
 
DurangoSteve's Avatar
 
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,907
Anybody remember the two-day coup in 2002 when Chavez was temporarily ousted? While never proven, the fingerprints of the Bush administration were all over it. And, they practically fell over themselves to recognize the military junta. It lasted all of two days, and Chavez was returned to power.

The rhetoric back and forth between Chavez and Bush was heated, but interestingly, the U.S. remains Venezuela's largest trading partner. Bilateral trade between the two countries actually increased 36% during 2006. He may hate the U.S., but Chavez definitely wants to keep selling us oil. We may dislike Chavez, but we definitely want to keep buying his oil. I guess the rhetoric on both our parts is good for domestic consumption... as is the buying/selling of oil. Pretty comical, really.
__________________
You can never step into the same river; for new waters are always flowing on to you. - Heraclitus of Ephesus
DurangoSteve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009   #6
swimming
 
conifer, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,025
Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoSteve View Post
Anybody remember the two-day coup in 2002 when Chavez was temporarily ousted? While never proven, the fingerprints of the Bush administration were all over it. And, they practically fell over themselves to recognize the military junta. It lasted all of two days, and Chavez was returned to power.

The rhetoric back and forth between Chavez and Bush was heated, but interestingly, the U.S. remains Venezuela's largest trading partner. Bilateral trade between the two countries actually increased 36% during 2006. He may hate the U.S., but Chavez definitely wants to keep selling us oil. We may dislike Chavez, but we definitely want to keep buying his oil. I guess the rhetoric on both our parts is good for domestic consumption... as is the buying/selling of oil. Pretty comical, really.
I believe one of the main points of disagreement between US policy makers and Chavez was the fact than Chavez refused to be held captive by the World Bank through loans designed to keep his country in servitude. He forewent these loans and financed through alternative means and saved his country millions vs. being held captive by the World Bank.
mr. compassionate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009   #7
 
Andy H.'s Avatar
 
Wheat Ridge, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,820
Quote:
He...financed through alternative means and saved his country millions vs. being held captive by the World Bank.
Venezuela has the benefit of being an oil-rich nation which helps implement his agenda. Under Chavez, more oil money stays to provide for the people than if a multi-national company were exploiting the resource. If he's smart, he'll use the money to build infrastructure and an economy that'll be sound when the oil runs out.
__________________
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
Andy H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2009   #8
 
Durango, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 347
Thats interesting to hear that he's using Venezuela's oil money to good effect. Keep in mind however that the CEPR has a fairly extensive history of defending Chavez. I'd love to see some coroborating data from another source.
Demosthenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009   #9
 
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demosthenes View Post
Thats interesting to hear that he's using Venezuela's oil money to good effect. Keep in mind however that the CEPR has a fairly extensive history of defending Chavez. I'd love to see some coroborating data from another source.

Mark Twain's phrase, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics" could easily be adapted to this: "there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and economists."

It is noteworthy to add that the CEPR analysis used mostly Venezuelan gov't sources for their data.

I was also curious to find a contrary viewpoint to the CEPR report and found This article. It was written by an economist who was Chief Economist of the Venezuelan National Assembly. He argues that, "Neither official statistics nor independent estimates show any evidence that Chávez has reoriented state priorities to benefit the poor" and that Chavez will eventually ruin Venezuela with his economic policies.


So, maybe the CEPR report is a bogus article. As of right now I haven't found another independent source that confirms whether or not the CEPR data is accurate. Fucking economists!
marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2009   #10
 
Florence, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 293
This is a refreshingly objective bunch of posts from all ends of the spectrum. Very nice.
TimberTroll is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paddling in Venezuela bwest Whitewater Kayaking 4 10-03-2008 08:21 AM

» Classified Ads
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.