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Old 12-22-2014   #1
gh
 
pnw, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,408
ROI?

$14 Million An Hour: War Costs Top $1.6 Trillion Since 9/11, Say Congressional Researchers

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Old 12-24-2014   #2
Old Guy in a PFD
 
Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Proving the old adage that Freedom is never free.

Especially with this bunch of robbers in Washington!
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Old 12-24-2014   #3
gh
 
pnw, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schutzie View Post
Proving the old adage that Freedom is never free.

Especially with this bunch of robbers in Washington!
Are you trying to say that this war was about freedom? Thats hilarious.
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Old 12-27-2014   #4
 
cedar city, Utah
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Posts: 2,261
Made me cringe in a way only truth can.

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Old 12-28-2014   #5
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 193
who are we going to bring democracy to next? who ever it is, they probably got plenty of oil.

Lyrics:

Padded with power here they come
International loan sharks backed by the guns
Of market hungry military profiteers
Whose word is a swamp and whose brow is smeared
With the blood of the poor

Who rob life of its quality
Who render rage a necessity
By turning countries into labour camps
Modern slavers in drag as champions of freedom

Sinister cynical instrument
Who makes the gun into a sacrament --
The only response to the deification
Of tyranny by so-called "developed" nations'
Idolatry of ideology

North South East West
Kill the best and buy the rest
It's just spend a buck to make a buck
You don't really give a flying fuck
About the people in misery

IMF dirty MF
Takes away everything it can get
Always making certain that there's one thing left
Keep them on the hook with insupportable debt

See the paid-off local bottom feeders
Passing themselves off as leaders
Kiss the ladies shake hands with the fellows
Open for business like a cheap bordello

And they call it democracy
And they call it democracy
And they call it democracy
And they call it democracy

See the loaded eyes of the children too
Trying to make the best of it the way kids do
One day you're going to rise from your habitual feast
To find yourself staring down the throat of the beast
They call the revolution

IMF dirty MF
Takes away everything it can get
Always making certain that there's one thing left
Keep them on the hook with insupportable debt
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Old 12-29-2014   #6
Old Guy in a PFD
 
Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gh View Post
Are you trying to say that this war was about freedom? Thats hilarious.
Yeah, it was about freedom. You think it was a joke?

Don't believe me; ask a vet why they went.
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Old 12-29-2014   #7
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 193
Schutzie,

even many of us like gh wouldn't be so crass as to ask someone who has served to answer that touchy question, much less someone who's come back maimed from an IED or suffered other trauma.

the fact of the matter is, these wars have nothing to do with the freedom of the average american. they're all about profits for oil companies and other US corporations, arms manufacturers, and wall street. those clever guys just do as usual and "externalize the costs" onto taxpayers and soldiers who's lives are ruined or ended.

and its not like this is a recent phenomenon. this crap has been going on for quite a long time, and is well summed up, even before "the good war" by retired U.S. Marine Corps Major General, Smedley Butler in 1935 who wrote:

Quote:
I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.
Butler wrote a book - actually a pamphlet you can read online real easily here. I'm sure that even though it was written in the 1930s, it could be easily updated with all thats happened since then.

hopefully one day we can reclaim our government from wall street tycoons.
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Old 12-29-2014   #8
gh
 
pnw, Colorado
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schutzie View Post
Yeah, it was about freedom. You think it was a joke?

Don't believe me; ask a vet why they went.
Why someone joins the military and why someone declares war are vastly different things and I will be more than happy to discuss that with a vet and have several times in the past.

If you believe this war was about freedom then there is nothing farther for us to discuss.
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Old 12-29-2014   #9
Old Guy in a PFD
 
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1967
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoBoater View Post
Schutzie,

even many of us like gh wouldn't be so crass as to ask someone who has served to answer that touchy question, much less someone who's come back maimed from an IED or suffered other trauma.

the fact of the matter is, these wars have nothing to do with the freedom of the average american. they're all about profits for oil companies and other US corporations, arms manufacturers, and wall street. those clever guys just do as usual and "externalize the costs" onto taxpayers and soldiers who's lives are ruined or ended.

and its not like this is a recent phenomenon. this crap has been going on for quite a long time, and is well summed up, even before "the good war" by retired U.S. Marine Corps Major General, Smedley Butler in 1935 who wrote:



Butler wrote a book - actually a pamphlet you can read online real easily here. I'm sure that even though it was written in the 1930s, it could be easily updated with all thats happened since then.

hopefully one day we can reclaim our government from wall street tycoons.
I've actually read Butler's stuff. In military circles he's regarded as something of a head case. A well decorated and respected warrior, but a head case none the less.

Look, we ask our veterans all the time what they thought they signed up for, and what they fought for. It isn't crass, and most veterans don't mind answering the question. I mean, is it crass to ask why someone is dumb enough to encase themselves in plastic and throw themselves into the spring run off?
Most of them say they signed up to defend American freedom. More of them say they fought for their brothers in arms.

It severely pisses me off when I hear the tired old "we fought for oil" and for "Bush's revenge" and for "big business". it's simplistic political spin for the voters back home. And it's a lie.

Of more import, it disrespects the sacrifices our best and brightest have made and will make.

That said, in my opinion just about every war since 1900 was avoidable. But it wasn't big business unhappy with their balance sheets making a call to the white house that explains why we have wars.
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Old 12-29-2014   #10
Old Guy in a PFD
 
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1967
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Posts: 1,106
Quote:
Originally Posted by gh View Post
Why someone joins the military and why someone declares war are vastly different things and I will be more than happy to discuss that with a vet and have several times in the past.

If you believe this war was about freedom then there is nothing farther for us to discuss.
Well then, its a good thing neither you or I will be deciding where and when we should send the troops next; cause, you know, if we aren't going to agree on the problem we shouldn't be trying to fix it.
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