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Old 12-09-2014   #1
 
GoodTimes's Avatar
 
Eagle, Idaho
Paddling Since: '78
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Lets beat the insurance dead horse

Super stoked...launched my business this year and had a great start. Out-performed my projections and on course for a great 2015. Self-employment is everything I knew it would be...not terribly concerned about continuing income and supporting my family.

I can tell you what I am concerned about...my family insurance plan more than doubling next year. F'n love it!!!

Making the "business" and personal decision to pay the penalty in 2016 and take the "risk". One...on principle because I loathe the system and the government for thinking they could create affordable health care (don't give me the "in due time" argument...bullshit, costs NEVER go down and I'm just subsidizing cheaper health care for the lazy). Two because I'm a risk taker and I think we'll be all right and we need to pull ourselves out of the initial business investment (and $6k+ in insurance premiums will make a difference).

Anyone have anything positive to say about this absolute f'n disaster?

That annoying AFLAC duck might become my buddy...because he'll be all we can afford.

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Old 12-10-2014   #2
 
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Christopher Creek, Arizona
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So, you are saying your current health care plan is doubling in cost and you are planning to drop all health insurance in coming years? A risk I personally would not take on, especially as a small business owner. I also face rising insurance costs but choosing to proceed uncovered does a couple of things you might consider. First and the most obvious is the risk we expose our family's future to should we or one of our family encounter an unfortunate catastrophic medical situation. The second is as an uninsured we become part of the problem that helps fuel dramatically rising health care costs; primary care via the hospital emergency room and not paying the bill. Everyone else then has to pay for our uncovered ass. If we have employees, we might also feel some responsibility towards their health care instead of sticking everyone else with the bill.


As a capitalist, you have every right to shop and negotiate a better deal on health insurance but gaming the system, not so much. Look at it from another angle, we all subsidize road and highway maintenance. It is just another cost we all face. What happens when someone is allowed to opt out? The cost for all others rises. So it seems the least expensive course is to distribute the cost over the broadest user base.


It is certainly more complex than that simple analogy but it seems you may be harboring a fundamental bias towards the ACA, socialism in any form, and the reality of rising health care costs. Have you considered your health insurance to be a needed component of you business plan and thus factored in a charge for the services you provide? Or, are you an unneccesary risk taker that a prospective customer might think of as a short-term player?
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Old 12-10-2014   #3
 
Bayfield, Colorado
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Make sure you check out a HSA set up coupled to a major medical policy. You can set your deductables to a level you are comfortable with (I went with 3500/person 7500 max per year) put the deductable in the HSA account and your set. My partner has a standard plan and pays 1600/month for a family of 4. My premiums are about 600/month. Any money you put into a HSA account is deductable and interest is tax free. To me medical insurance is about catastrophic stuff. For a broken arm write the check, once your deductable is maxed 100% coverage for the rest of the year. To me these types of policys are the best deal out there. Also congrats on your new business.
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Old 12-10-2014   #4
 
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Charleston, West Virginny
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I actually do have some success stories from a few friends/loved ones where the ACA is a game changer/ life saver (i.e a very good thing).

For one in particular recently, he signed up and it was $300/mo. Have you looked into private insurance before this? I had and $300 isn't bad considering his coverage...and is almost what I was paying when I worked for one of the largest natural gas companies in the nation. I too looked at AFLAC when I was contracting with that company (before hired)....unless they changed something, they are a "supplementary insurance" that does little more than cut you a check of a certain amount for a certain case...and it wasn't cheap for that crappy coverage.

I'm not going to go into the others....long explainations that I suspect would fall on deaf ears anyways...I think your mind is made. I will say the success stories center around saving money through needed perscriptions, being able to afford preventative care that will save/ prolong her life and two others who now can get insurance since they can't be denied for pre-existing conditions, so...

I realize it is different state to state. But I think we have to realize as a society that something HAD to be done to prevent healthcare costs from spiraling out of control and to provide everyone a chance at getting healthcare. Sorry it doesn't seem to be working out for you.

...is this the best way to do it? I dunno....time will tell...but something had to be done.
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Old 12-10-2014   #5
gh
 
pnw, Colorado
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You have been subsidizing health care since the day Reagan said all ER's must treat anyone. So when you go to the hospital and you could pay, they would charge you huge amounts to make up for those that couldnt.
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Old 12-10-2014   #6
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Another vote for catastrophic high deductible coverage. Definitely make sure the kiddos have something. I haven't used it myself but I understand my state exchange has excellent options for minors. I went years without insurance and it worked out for me because I didn't need the care. I was lucky and have some good friends who did the same thing and things didn't turn out as well for them. Good luck.
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Old 12-10-2014   #7
 
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So let's say you get sick, but not acute enough for the ER and you can't work. ER doesn't make a person well anyways, if you get a serious medical condition. They won't give you chemo. Now you have medical bills and no work. That sounds great- not. Don't leave yourself hanging like that.

Let me tell you my story. It is extreme but can happen to anyone. I developed rheumatoid arthritis 2.5 years ago (@44 yo). I can now see back that I started having mild symptoms 2 years before that. It progressed quickly and between excruciating pain, unbelievable fatigue (out of breath going DOWN stairs) and lumps in my feet I could hardly walk and almost couldn't work. I take medication that costs over $5k a month. Now I work (not full time) and boat (nowhere near like I used to). I go see my rheumatologist and get blood work every 2 months to the tune of $500. Of I didn't have insurance not only would I no longer be able to work because I couldn't afford those out of pocket, but I'd probably be on disability. There are so many diseases that hit people, IMO it is stupid not to protect yourself especially with a family. I was fit, healthy, ate well and hadn't even really drank for 10 years and nothing else. Eat mostly organic and very little processed and no fast food. No one is immune. Cancer, MS, you name it. Imagine if your wife or child gets a serious illness and you can't afford to treat it.

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Old 12-10-2014   #8
gh
 
pnw, Colorado
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I am sorry. Autoimmune sucks. I know a little about that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lhowemt View Post
So let's say you get sick, but not acute enough for the ER and you can't work. ER doesn't make a person well anyways, if you get a serious medical condition. They won't give you chemo. Now you have medical bills and no work. That sounds great- not. Don't leave yourself hanging like that.

Let me tell you my story. It is extreme but can happen to anyone. I developed rheumatoid arthritis 2.5 years ago (@44 yo). I can now see back that I started having mild symptoms 2 years before that. It progressed quickly and between excruciating pain, unbelievable fatigue (out of breath going DOWN stairs) and lumps in my feet I could hardly walk and almost couldn't work. I take medication that costs over $5k a month. Now I work (not full time) and boat (nowhere near like I used to). I go see my rheumatologist and get blood work every 2 months to the tune of $500. Of I didn't have insurance not only would I no longer be able to work because I couldn't afford those out of pocket, but I'd probably be on disability. There are so many diseases that hit people, IMO it is stupid not to protect yourself especially with a family. I was fit, healthy, ate well and hadn't even really drank for 10 years and nothing else. Eat mostly organic and very little processed and no fast food. No one is immune. Cancer, MS, you name it. Imagine if your wife or child gets a serious illness and you can't afford to treat it.

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Old 12-10-2014   #9
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Yep - another small business owner here, and I'm going from $200 per month to almost $600 per month for the same major medical plan, with the same $5,000 deductible. That's $12,200 per year for premiums and deductible before my insurance even kicks in! This is so absurd that I'm looking to drop health insurance for the first time in my life, and the fine will cost me almost as much to NOT have insurance as it did last year to HAVE it! Somehow this is a great improvement in "affordable" care? HA!!! Who actually believes this crap?
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Old 12-10-2014   #10
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
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And that's not for a family - just me!
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