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Old 01-06-2009   #1
 
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La Danse du Douchebags

Hamas has been taunting Israel with rocketfire since chosing not to continue an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire. Israel, in turn, has launched a bloody air attack and now a brutal ground invasion. 600 Palestinians have been killed by the Israelis, including children in two schools.

Hamas baited Israel into this invasion, knowing that the Israelis would respond with disproportionate force to provocation as they always do. Hamas knew that civilians would die. This is their cynical strategy: to create outrage against Israel in the Arab world. Hamas literally sacrificed Palestinian children to further their "cause."

Once again, Israel has taken the bait and responded with its signature heavy-handedness. This approach hasn't helped them in the past, and will only create more suicide bombers, diminish their security, and further their isolate them from the rest of the world. Meanwhile, the Lame Duck in Chief can only mutter that Israel "has a right to defend itself." Well, of course they do. But this is far more complicated than Bush's simplistic approach offers.

Here's an interesting read that offers one Israeli's view of Israel's quandary:

Can the Jewish People Survive Without an Enemy? - TIME

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Old 01-06-2009   #2
 
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steve are you actually sticking up for hamas? what do you think the isrealies should do continue to let hamas walk over them? its like this a kid at the play ground pushs you down and when you get up he pushs you right back down. you try to stand up once again, and he pushs you right down. you try to stand up and he again pushs you down. what do you do i would slit his alchelies tendon and watch the pos die in his own provocation. end of story.
.. the jewish community in isreal has been through enough just like what you say about the ireqycivialians and our withdrawl from the middle east. it no use for bush to do anything hes done in less than a month i would be worried what your lord and savior has to say about the situtation which is about the same "blah blahh" as bush. unless he plans to "talk" to hamas and get him to stop? also the government is very representative of its religion.
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Old 01-06-2009   #3
 
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Shit Mike, reread my post.

Quote:
This is their cynical strategy: to create outrage against Israel in the Arab world. Hamas literally sacrificed Palestinian children to further their "cause."
The douchebags who are dancing are Hamas and the Israelis. I'm pointing out that while Hamas and the Israeli military are going apeshit, the people of Gaza and Israel suffer. Again and again.

Bush decided a long time ago not to be actively involved in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. He has done squat. He continues to do squat. Wait, he actually pushed for the Palestinian election that put Hamas in power!

The PLO was ineffective and corrupt. The Palestinians chose Hamas in the election. We have to engage them or destroy them. And destroying them would require street-level warfare in one of the most densely populated parts of the world... which is what Israel is currently doing. If they end up creating an even greater civilian bloodbath in Gaza, they further compromise their security. Suicide bomber recruiters will be working overtime to process all the new recruits.
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Old 01-06-2009   #4
 
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no shit steve but that battle will never end specially when " holyland" is involved.
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Old 01-06-2009   #5
 
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Good ol' "Holyland." Not sure what's so damned "holy" about endless suffering and death.
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Old 01-06-2009   #6
 
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A word from someone there. Not much taunting going on, unless you can feel taunted by a cripple 2 year old child.

Missoulian: Stop the massacre in Gaza<BR>Sunday, Jan. 4, 2008
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Old 01-06-2009   #7
 
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Laura - good editorial link.

The missiles that Hamas started launching once the ceasefire expired were intended to provoke an Israeli overreaction. Well, they got what they wanted. And the deathtoll is rising...
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Old 01-06-2009   #8
 
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Navrum Burg sounds like the kind of thinker that's going to be needed if this endless cycle of an eye for an eye is ever going to end. What the vast majority of people on this planet want is to be able to have enough security that they will be able to live in comfort, with a way to support themselves and their families. Part of the reason radical Islam has become such a bogeyman in the last decade is that there are large parts of the world where life sucks right now. A life of persecution, hatred, and martyrdom isn't the first choice of most people who choose it. They feel they've lost any hope of living with dignity, and have been forced into fighting for themselves. You can't have suicide bombers without people living in self-perceived squalor and hopelessness.

I'm not defending anyone who chooses to see human lives as worthless, or as the means to a political end, and am disgusted by the notion that killing can ever be good. Sometimes it may be necessary for self-defense, but using it as an offensive weapon only creates more enemies.

Imagine growing up in a place surrounded by fanatical enemies, secure only through your technological prowess and the financial and military support of other technologically advanced countries. It would be hard not to hate the Palestinians if a Hamas suicide bomber blew up your mom and dad, or your husband or wife.

Now imagine living in a perpetual war zone, where your education is limited to middle school, there aren't any jobs to be had, you are always on the edge of starvation, the power comes on for two hours a day, and your family's olive orchard was just bulldozed to make way for luxurious suburbs with green lawns, right on the other side of that cement and razorwire wall. It'd be hard not to hate the Israelis if your family was killed in a missile strike from one of their gunships.

Try the other shoe on.
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Old 01-06-2009   #9
 
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remember im not religous steve i find it just as stupid but its the real world right. 1n 1922 11 percent of all citizens where jewish meaning isreal was prodominately muslim less than 100 years ago. today the united states, united nations including britian. have tried with great failures to bring peace to this region steve. after world war 2 the number of jews shot up to 33 precent from 11. i can see why the muslim people are still mad. we put them both in the situation so bush can not really take sides at this point because we helped put the jews in the position as well as the palestienians

bluesky also what do you think abou the meaning of jihad? it isn't because they are forced. remember nobody is forced to do anything in this world everybody can make there own senseable decisions. but muslims feel threatened by anybody who beleives differently. anybody who is for the mis treatment of women. your mom and sister is not any man in this world. muslims believe that all people in this world should submit to god! the whole purpose of jihad is to universalize islam. Jihad, the only form of warfare permissible in Islamic law, may be declared against apostates, rebels, highway robbers, violent groups, unIslamic leaders or states which refuse to submit to the authority of Islam. from wiki.
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Old 01-06-2009   #10
 
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Jihad can be translated as any struggle against barriers to following the rules and ideals of Islam, including something as unviolent and esoteric as the struggle of suppressing daytime hunger and thirst during the Ramadan fast. Jihad by itself is not a bad thing. When Jihad becomes the justification for murdering innocent people, then it becomes very bad indeed.

My previous post only meant to point out the subjective conditions that can help guide a person to think a certain way. A person who has grown up surrounded by perceived oppression, and with fiery fundamentalist role models as the main, and very visible alternative to this oppression, has a good chance of joining up. Changing those conditions by removing the perceived oppression will do buckets more for stopping the spread of fundamentalism than continuing to bomb and kill more people.
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