Its true I am a Christian.... and i am going to vote for Obama. - Mountain Buzz
 

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Old 10-29-2008   #1
 
Evergreen, Colorado
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Its true I am a Christian.... and i am going to vote for Obama.

You hear people say all muslims are terrorists, just like all evangelicals are republicans and are conservative. I would like to think of my self as an evangelical and call myself a Christian but when I hear people say stuff like the end of the world is coming if Obama gets elected as was referenced in another post, well it drives me nuts.

https://www.mountainbuzz.com/forums/f...ler-22070.html
Number 21 I am glad this has bee brought up and I hope I can provide some other perspective.

This is not the first time a douche bag from Focus has said something stupid. During the DNC one of their leaders had a video saying he was praying that Obamas speech would get rained out. The next week the GOP was postponed due to a hurricane. This gave me a good laugh.

So because of my faith i am voting for Obama. Just a little background on me, I am an ordained southern baptist pastor, I have a degree in theology and youth ministry. What is most important to me is poverty. Every night 670,000 people are homeless, 50% are women and children 25% are veterans. 30 million people in our country are below the poverty line, 34 million cannot afford health care. If you look on John McCains issues page you will not find the word poverty. Because he does not care. There are 2000+ verses in scripture encouraging people to take care of the needy and the oppressed plus some of Jesus's harshest rebukes and yet evangelicals are throwing support to to the GOP. Its just wrong. SO they make abortion and gay marriage an issue

I hate abortion but simply making it illegal does not address why people have them in the first place. The GOP only has one way to deal with that and it is to encourage adoption. Its like cutting the branches off of a weed and thinking that will deal with the issue. Sheer ignorance.

Gay Marriage is a no brainer. Call it a civil union...

Anyway just so you know Focus does not speak for all evangelicals any more than Bin Laden speaks for all Muslims... and yes I do mean to draw that comparison.

rodda

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Old 10-29-2008   #2
 
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Ben,

I am glad to hear a lucid response from a self proclaimed evangelical. The fact that are an evangelical and yet will say 'douche bag' even makes me respect you even more......

Why is that a large group of evangelicals ie. Focus cant see the forest for the trees. I realize that abortion, gay marraige is a huge issue to them, but what about the other issues, national security, economy, political corruption etc?

What good does crying about abortion and gay marriage when then larger picture is, to me, more important. Who really cares about two lesbians marrying when our economy has collapsed and we are shunned by the world due to our current foriegn policies. Is the killing of a few fetuses worse than carpet bombing countries even though they are muslim?

I was watching a evangelical station out of Midland Texas (God's Learning Channel?) On the discussion forum, the topic of a Michigan town that had recently elected a majority Muslim city counsel, came up. In addition, this city counsel in a largely Muslim community was putting speakers on their 'churches' to broadcast the call to prayer. One of the ladies on the discussion panel emphatically stated that this 'should not be allowed to happen' and 'these people represent everything that is tearing our country apart'. I bet she doesn't bat an eye when the local Christian church rings the bell.... Dobson mentioned that 9/11 was in part caused by gays, and a variety of groups that don't subscribe to evangelical teachings.

The foundation of almost every religions is based on morality, humanity, and common sense. I honestly have no problem with any religions as long as they dont push their beliefs onto me. I also realize that many fundamentals of religion have to be incorperated into our government just because of morality of being human.

How can so many so called fundamentalist and evangelicals be extremely degrading and hateful towards those who do not subscribe to their view. If fire and brimstone is coming at us, please let me burn in my lake of fire; my friends will be there anyhow.... I am a big boy I can make my decisions.

Not calling you out ben, just wondering if you can shed some light on this

Scott
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Old 10-29-2008   #3
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Ben, if more Christians were like you, I wouldn't harbor such an intense dislike for the religion.
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Old 10-29-2008   #4
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dude. thanks for that!

look at this: You cannot be a Christian and vote for Obama

it makes me so mad they think we are not christians based on who we vote for.
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Old 10-29-2008   #5
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ben, you are restoring my faith in humanity. no, seriously thanks for your post.
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Old 10-29-2008   #6
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Originally Posted by mania View Post
dude. thanks for that!

look at this: You cannot be a Christian and vote for Obama

it makes me so mad they think we are not christians based on who we vote for.

Shit! I forgot to read God's Voter guide. I guess I screwed up my vote.
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Old 10-29-2008   #7
 
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Scott and others,

I totally understand your intent. I know you were not trying to call me out at all. And even if you were its understandable, I share your frustrations. As well thanks for giving me the beneift of the doubt.

I cannot speak for anyone but myself nor can I speak for evangelicals. The only reason why I call myself an evangelical is that I happen to believe in the same basic doctrines. Where my road breaks away is in practice. That being said I will offer my opinions:

Honestly I would say that most evangelicals "worldview" is more shaped by capitalism, pop-culture, the GOP, fear, and a consumer based/attractional model of church than by the new testament. Fear more than likely being the most dominant. Fear nearly always results in anger, anger if not delt with results in hate. Which is why so many fundamentalist are so hateful.

And most of the issues are not so simple. A Christian know that they cant tell a young lady who is considering an abortion, "hey abortion is murder, dont do it, put it up for adoption instead...." (yet some still do I know) yeah right its not so simple when you are in her shoes. When complex issues like that arise frustration insues and then fear then anger then hate. Same thing with homesexuality its not so simple as go to gay camp and they will fix you.... its complex.

So you as a christian you are taught that the end of the world is coming becasue of a political candidate, and if you vote for someone who supports abortion you are bringing a curse upon our nation... etc... Its woven into the christian culture so deeply and thuroughly that I fear that string cant be pulled out.

I mean its funny I had a Christian friend tell me that Obama is a socialist so he cant vote for him. I was wondering if the dude had ever read the old testament when all the laws for culture were being established, or if he knew anything about Jesus. I dont know if Jesus would be a socialist but I am positve he would not be a capitalist. By saying that I must say that I do appreciate capitalism and know that socialism will only work in a perfect world.

SO you talk about the forest... its easier for an evangelical to boil it down to just a few trees: abortion, gay marriage, war or terror (irradicating evil). And honestly I try to read what Marko and others say on here and well I dont comprehend it all. So my trees are ones that I actually read and see in the life of Jesus. A quote from Kurt Vonnegut, a proclaimed athiest who wrote the Slaughter House Five, it got me thinking. "For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes. But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course thatís Moses, not Jesus. I havenít heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere."

So the beatitidudes and the sermon on the mount is what I have decided would be my cheat sheet for candidate selection. And well I cant seem to find much of "McCain Palin" in there. As well I have made an Art peice to hang in my house with the beatitudes on it I think they are very powerful.

If you want more of a point by point kind of thing I am happy to give it a shot.

And by the way I actually censored myself when I called the Focus guy a douche bag.....

rodda
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Old 10-29-2008   #8
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30 million people in our country are below the poverty line, 34 million cannot afford health care. ignorance.

It's a fact that 10 million of the so-called uninsured are 20-40 year old singles who chose to risk no insurance and use the disposable income to spend on non-necessities. As for at the 30 million poor, only in in America can you be morbidly obese have a cell phone and enjoy cable tv on a cable television!

Gay Marriage is a no brainer. Call it a civil union...

Agree 100%, don't lump all Christians in with Focus on the Family just like I don't lump Obama in with all fanatical Muslims.
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Old 10-29-2008   #9
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Frankly i'm surprised that you fail to grasp that Conservative Christians believe that charity/giving should be voluntary not forcible through the Government. I'm amazed at how clouded Obama has made your judgement. Didn't it used to be that charity and churches provided help to the poor and downtrodden? I find it repulsive that you would rather allow murder through abortion in order to give a few extra government bucks to the "poor". What about the unborn childs right to be obese and have color tv and cell phone?
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Old 10-30-2008   #10
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benrodda- you have a beautiful soul. Thank you for at least partially for restoring my faith.

Mr. C. Usually, I choose not to respond to your inaneness (big word Wednesday for you I'm sure). But here, I have to say, you are a moron. Just stop.
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