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Old 04-04-2009   #1
 
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How can this not bother all of you Obama supporters

If you are an Obama supporter Read this article.

After you are finished reading this article please discuss why these blatant signs of corruption and fraud within the Obama admin don't bother you.

I can understand why people like Obama and why people are giving him the benefit of the doubt. But I can't understand how anybody could overlook the fact that his economic team consists of downright fraudulent con men. I just can't understand why people choose to turn a blind eye to this crap.

Here are some questions:
Is Obama aware of what HIS appointees are doing?
Is Obama oblivious, or complicit?
Or, do you still believe that these bankers have the people's best interests in mind?

To paraphrase economist Dean Baker... "Putting people like Geithner, Summers, and Rubin in charge of fixing the economic mess we are in is like putting Osama Bin Laden in charge of heading up the global war on terrorism."

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Old 04-04-2009   #2
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No Mas

Not exactly a news flash, but a solid and disturbing confirmation that we will get fooled again.

"Obama has surrounded himself with advisers aligned with Wall Street interests in an effort to establish public confidence in his ability to restore order in the economy. Because there has been no discussion of any other option, to most people "restoring order" means restoring the status quo with the addition of a job-stimulous package, and that is most likely what he will try to do."

David. C. Korten, Agenda for a New Economy, From Phantom Wealth to Real Wealth.

But blaming/defending Obama is a distraction from the real problem - both parties seek to protect (Repubs with guns backed by policy, Dems with policy backed by guns) the oppressive power of finance capitalism's money illusion, at the expense of everything else.
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Old 04-04-2009   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Droboat View Post
Not exactly a news flash, but a solid and disturbing confirmation that we will get fooled again.

"Obama has surrounded himself with advisers aligned with Wall Street interests in an effort to establish public confidence in his ability to restore order in the economy. Because there has been no discussion of any other option, to most people "restoring order" means restoring the status quo with the addition of a job-stimulous package, and that is most likely what he will try to do."

David. C. Korten, Agenda for a New Economy, From Phantom Wealth to Real Wealth.

But blaming/defending Obama is a distraction from the real problem - both parties seek to protect (Repubs with guns backed by policy, Dems with policy backed by guns) the oppressive power of finance capitalism's money illusion, at the expense of everything else.
Awesome!! That last paragraph is about as to the point as you can get!

I really enjoy David Korten's writings. I haven't had the chance to read "Agenda for a New Economy", but I keep seeing comments about it.

I realize that the article is not exactly a news flash. And, in fact, if you read my posts from during the campaign months of Sept and Oct you will see that I have been saying the same thing about Obama's economic team since then.

The reason I keep posting these types of articles is simply based on an effort to continue to try to peel off the blinders of the faithful Obama crowd. I am not trying to blame or defend... I'm just trying to spread information. Every conversation I have with Obama folks either have no clue as to who his economic team consists of or they write it off as something that is necessary because these bankers are the "experts".

The same type of "defending theme" emanated from the Bush-lovers and conservatives during the 8 years of Bush crimes. Defending Bush and his policies was one crappy rationalization after another. Now, the liberals and Obamabots are doing the same type of rationalization for the shitty realities of Obama.
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Old 04-05-2009   #4
 
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It's very disturbing to me that people are so quick to blame capitalism for the credit crisis and the world economy.

George bush was not a capitalist. His cabinet members were not capitalists. Every bank that was bailed out, every car company that was bailed out and everyone still waiting for their "fair share" are not capitalists. These people are all thieves.

Obama came into the picture as the messiah but if you really look at the way him and his friends operate you'll see that he's just another scumbag. At least he can read a teleprompter.
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Old 04-05-2009   #5
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It certainly bothers me, as we've seen.

It's not prima facie corruption, however, that advisers come from the financial sector. You would pick people who know how contracts work in the same situation. The best example I can give you is that letting Bear Stearns fall directly led to AIG's insolvency because AIG had so much insurance involved in Stearns.

It stinks, absolutely. I pass on declaring it corruption as I'm more comfortable calling it incompetent.

What bothers me a great deal that you may have missed is the FASB's (Federal Accounting Standards Board) allowed a change to so-called "Mark to Market" rules that effectively make it possible to say assets are worth more than someone will pay for them. This creates a loss of transparency which further confuses people and erodes confidence.

I think we're going to see this get worse yet (don't expect 8000 to hold).

It's bad. Again, I don't think these guys are trying to protect their friends' money as a primary concern, but they are not getting outside of the method of thinking. That's not uncommon among people who think themselves tremendously bright (I would know!)
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Old 04-06-2009   #6
 
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As an Obama supporter, I confess some serious misgivings about Summers and Geithner running the economic show. Summers' involvement in the deregulation that brought us to the economic precipice is more than a little disturbing to me. My hope is that the Obama economic team will stabilize the existing, horribly flawed system and once confidence is restored, they will embark on a serious re-regulation program that eliminates the crazy mortgage-backed securities and restores the wise post-depression barriers between financial institutions and insurance companies.

My fear is that they will continue business as usual. Marko, while I am not an anarcho-capitalist nor an anarcho-socialist, I freely acknowledge that you bring up some legitimate concerns.
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Old 04-06-2009   #7
 
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First, I'm not an Obama lover. But I think there are two issues at hand - undoing the financial mess and preventing it from happening again. I don't think they are the same whatsoever. The current priority is to undo the mess. These guys might be the best to do it since they have inside knowledge of the problems. However, I don't think they are the ones to prevent it from happening again (i.e., increasing regulation).
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Old 04-06-2009   #8
 
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Originally Posted by jbolson View Post
First, I'm not an Obama lover. But I think there are two issues at hand - undoing the financial mess and preventing it from happening again. I don't think they are the same whatsoever. The current priority is to undo the mess. These guys might be the best to do it since they have inside knowledge of the problems. However, I don't think they are the ones to prevent it from happening again (i.e., increasing regulation).
The reason these guys have "inside knowledge of the problems" is because THEY CREATED THE PROBLEMS!

It is the classic story of the fox guarding the hen house.

And, the other classic story in regards to many Americans is:




Have you ever wondered why these bankers are only focusing on the symptoms and not focusing on the problems? Maybe it's because it would put the spotlight on their complicity in creating the mess and would expose their utter incompetence and corruption - for those who might believe in the corruption possibility.

There are plenty of other economists and advocates who have plenty of enough expertise to help solve the problems. There are better solutions... it is just so rare to hear about them in the corporate media.

Ralph Nader recently said that the gov't could have used the trillions in bailout money to create 10 new banks with $35 billion each with a 10 to 1 leverage to open the credit markets. There is a temporary solution.

Invester Jim Rogers said, "They call up and shriek about systemic risk. Come on. Investment banks have been going bankrupt for hundreds of years and the world has still somehow survived. This approach has never worked. This is what the Japanese did in the 1990s. They refused to let anyone fail. And they had zombie banks and zombie companies. The way the system is supposed to work is when we have bad times, the assets moves from the incompetent to the competent, and then the competent start with renewed strength and the system rebuilds itself."

Economist Dean Baker has written extensively on the AIG scandal and also gave a solution to the bonus scandals He said that since the gov't owns 80% of AIG it could split off the financial division and allow it to go bankrupt.

Nobel Prize Laurette Joseph Stiglitz has also written about better solutions. Even recently he wrote about how Geithners new plan is a win-win-lose. Guess who loses?

Economist Simon Johnson recently wrote an article that should be read by everybody. Helio posted it on another thread, but here is the link again. He mentioned that we need to be nationalizing and breaking up the mega-banks.... the EXACT opposite of what the guys with "inside knowledge" are doing.

Other intellectuals have talked about how the financial logic of neo-liberalism has failed and has reached it's limits. Here's a good one.

Quote:
The misnamed "Group of Twenty" (G20) meets in London on 2 April 2009 to discuss how to save the global financial system. It is too late. The evidence is in: we don't have the resources to save this system - even if we wanted to. It has become too big to save: the value of global financial assets is several times the size of global gross national product (GDP). The real challenge is not to save this system but to definancialize our economies, as a prelude to move beyond the current model of capitalism. Why should the value of financial assets stay at almost four times the overall GDP of the European Union, and even more of the United States. What do everyday citizens - or the planet - gain from such excess?
The question answers itself. To explore further the inner workings of the financial system that has brought the world to this predicament is also to glimpse a future beyond financialization. The task the G20 should actually address is not to save this financial system but to begin to definancialize the major economies to a significant degree, so that the world can begin to move towardsthe creation of a "real" economy that delivers security, stability, and sustainability. There is much work to do.
We cannot begin this new work to rebuild until we face the fact that Obama's economic appointees NEED TO BE KICKED OUT AND REPLACED!!!


"We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them." -Einsten
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Old 04-06-2009   #9
 
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you got that right..... but, we can't judge any of them as of yet. right MR. Beaver and RIP.
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Old 04-06-2009   #10
 
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Mikey, it really makes me smile when you rail against the "ogilarchy" (sic) one day and act as an apologist for them the next day. It's kinda schizo.
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