Do we really want a democracy? Food for thought!!! - Mountain Buzz
 

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Old 03-18-2009   #1
 
timbuktu, Colorado
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Do we really want a democracy? Food for thought!!!

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." -- John Adams

We have come to believe in democracy almost like a religion. But I think it is time to rethink it because it is not working well. Therefore it is useful to start from first principles... by looking at what America's Founders were thinking when they crafted the Constitution of the United States.

Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths.'
- James Madison 1


You see James Madison's comment about democracy being incompatible with the rights of property and time is proving him right. Private property rights are being eroded by the tyranny of the majority.

I believe that America's Founding Fathers did not intend for the US to be a democracy but a Republic with elected leaders.

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Old 03-18-2009   #2
 
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thats how i see it.
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Old 03-18-2009   #3
 
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Republic? Democracy? Hmm, I think we're in waning days of a plutocracy.

Here's "recovering Republican" Kevin Phillips' definition of plutocracy.

Quote:
BILL MOYERS: You keep referring in your book "Wealth and Democracy" to a plutocracy. What do you mean by that?

KEVIN PHILLIPS: Well, the plutocracy ... and I think we have one now and we didn't, 12 years ago when I wrote THE POLITICS OF RICH AND POOR is when money has ceased just entertaining itself with leveraged buyouts and all the stuff they did in the '80s, and really takes over politics, and takes it over on both sides when money not only talks, money screams. When you start developing philosophies in which giving a check is a First Amendment right. That's incredible. But what you've got is that this is what money has done. It's produced the fusion of money and government. And that is plutocracy.

BILL MOYERS: But hasn't money always held politics hostage?

KEVIN PHILLIPS: Well, it's usually been very influential. And sometimes it really hasn't been too influential,

But what we've seen in the '80s and '90s is that it's taken control of both parties, pretty much taken control of the culture, and controls the whole dynamics of politics. And that is a plutocracy in a way that we haven't had before, since the gilded age.
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Old 03-18-2009   #4
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The problem with Phillips assertion is that something has changed. All human societies are oligarchies of some form or another. From family to hamlet to city to state, the second law of thermodynamics rules. That's why it's a law, not a theory.
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Old 03-18-2009   #5
 
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Originally Posted by DurangoSteve View Post
Republic? Democracy? Hmm, I think we're in waning days of a plutocracy.

Here's "recovering Republican" Kevin Phillips' definition of plutocracy.
Interesting you should bring this up... I've recently been reading various opinions and thoughts on plutocracy. I thought this article had some interesting thoughts on the topic.

The Goldsmiths—Part XXXXVI
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Old 03-18-2009   #6
 
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We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. – Winston Churchill (1903)

Churchill had such a good way of saying things.
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Old 03-18-2009   #7
 
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The number one reason for limited central government is that the money and influence will always flow to where the power lies. If there isn't any power, there isn't anything to influence. The founding fathers knew this and purposefully limited the power of the federal government. The power should be held with the states where accountability is greatest.

That's all gone out the window and is disappearing even faster with everyone expecting the federal government to fix every problem that comes along.
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Old 03-18-2009   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heliodorus04 View Post
The problem with Phillips assertion is that something has changed. All human societies are oligarchies of some form or another. From family to hamlet to city to state, the second law of thermodynamics rules. That's why it's a law, not a theory.
I prefer the Greek of course but the English "Mobocracy" is so much more colorful. Mob Rule Lives!
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Old 03-19-2009   #9
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I can't let such commentary go without noting that the Electoral college was designed and implemented to keep mob rule to a minimum. The electoral college was to elect both Senators and President. The mob was to elect members to the House of Representatives.

That would have kept accountability 1) local, and 2) to such a small number of people that it could easily be seen where their interests lie.

It was a good system as designed. We screwed it up.
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Old 03-19-2009   #10
 
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One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation. – Thomas B. Reed (1886)

Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. – The Wizard of Oz

I contend that unless we as a people are willing to boot the establishment (vote independent) and take over, we will never witness true "change you can believe in". Even then, it's only a short period of time before the independents become slaves and we'll have to do it all over again!

- Yarmonymatoid 2009
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