Coming Ice Age? - Mountain Buzz

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Old 05-04-2009   #1
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Coming Ice Age?

Oops. We overlooked 193,000 square miles of ice

19 Feb 09 – The ice is melting! The ice is melting! . . . Or is it?
In May, 2008, the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) predicted that the North Pole would be ice-free during the 2008 melt season because of ‘global warming.’
Today, they admitted that they’ve underreported Arctic ice extent by 193,000 square miles (500,000 square kilometers). They blamed the error on satellite problems and sensor drift.
Daily Arctic sea ice extent map for 15 Feb 2009 showed
areas of open water that should have appeared as sea ice.
Credit: National Snow and Ice Data CenterAnd we’re supposed to trust these people?
193,000 square miles!

That’s the size of Maine, Vermont, Maryland, Massachusetts, New
York, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Rhode Island,
and West Virginia combined! And toss in Washington, D.C. for
good measure.

Let’s watch the newspapers. If a pimple of ice smaller than a city
should break off an ice sheet, they'd holler to the high heavens.
But do you think they’ll report this discovery of 'lost' ice the size
of 10 states?

As opposed to the NSIDC information, AMSR-E data - compiled in cooperation with the Japan Aerospace Exploration Agency and the Advanced Earth Science and Technology Organization of Japan - shows that sea ice extent in 2009 is running ahead of 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2008. Perhaps the NSIDC’s prediction of an ice-free north pole is premature.
Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis
Thanks to Thomas Lovely, D. Wilson and Tom Meyer for this link
See AMSR-E chart here:

Another pertinent article:

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No Global Warming in Antarctica
Says head of Polar Meteorology Group
at Byrd Polar Research Center
15 Sep 07 - "Antarctica - a vast territory whose sea-ice growth in winter effectively doubles its size to envelop an area three times that of Canada...

"Not until 1998, with the advent of new technologies and improved scientific understanding, did human knowledge "allow the question of the global relevance of Antarctica to be explored in detail for the first time," stated David Bromwich of the Byrd Polar Research Center at Ohio State University. A decade ago, Dr. Bromwich was embarking on a major research project for the National Science Foundation to begin to understand this frozen continent, which is the primary heat sink in the global climate system, and "plays a central role in global climate variability and change."

"As Dr. Bromwich reported earlier this year at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science at San Francisco, "It's hard to see a global-warming signal from the mainland of Antarctica right now."

"Dr. Bromwich found that the global models that the IPCC relies on are at odds with his own findings. Antarctica's temperatures during the late 20th century did not climb as global climate models predicted.

"We're looking for a small signal that represents the impact of human activity and it is hard to find it at the moment." "... until the global models get the polar regions right, they won't get the global climate right either."

David Bromwich is head of the Polar Meteorology Group of the Byrd Polar Research Center and Professor in the Atmospheric Sciences Program at the Department of Geography of Ohio State University. He is president of the International Commission on Polar Meteorology, the chair of the Polar DAAC Advisory Group, a member of the Arctic Climate System Study Working Group on Reanalysis, and a past member of the National Academy of Sciences, Committee on Geophysical and Environmental Data. The author or co-author of numerous papers, he received his PhD in meteorology from the University of Wisconsin, Madison, in 1979.

See entire article by Lawrence Solomon, entitled
"You still need your parka in Antarctica"
Thanks to John Zielinski for this link See also: Glaciers are growing around the world, including the United States
See Growing Glaciers

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Old 05-04-2009   #2
no tengo
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BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | Ice bridge ruptures in Antarctic

BBC NEWS | Science & Environment | New evidence on Antarctic warming

Arctic heats up more than other places

Arctic sea ice thinning at record rate

Arctic ice on the verge of another all-time low: Scientific American

Climate Warming Causes Collapse of Antarctic Ice Shelf: Scientific American

Glaciers Disappear in Before & After Photos | LiveScience

The evidence for ice loss due to warming is overwhelming. Its great that you found a few thousand square miles but it won't last long. Sorry Mr C - you lose. We all lose.
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Old 05-04-2009   #3
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Mr. C, I've found a place you might want to visit.

Uh, I'm just gonna go find a cash machine.
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Old 05-04-2009   #4
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Its fascinating to me that the supporters of conservative ideology, who did away with the FCC's "equal time" doctrine years ago, has used the concept of equal time to ensure that the views of a very small minority of climate and earth scientists (usually those funded by the fossil fuel industry) are given voice.

There has been a consensus since about 1995 among the scientific community that climate change is real, its happening, and that its caused by CO2 from human activities. The reason so many people think it doesn't exist is because the media has insisted on reporting the "other side of the story" which has also been pushed by powerful interests vested in continuing use of fossil fuels. The fact that they can manufacture a perceived scientific controversy, even when there's not really one there, is added incentive to report the coal industry shills' side of the story as if its actually an accepted viewpoint.

If you don't believe the scientific community, consider that a lot of insurance companies and other traditional institutions recognize that the climate is becoming warmer. These institutions are about as far from being tree hugging greenies as any hard-nosed capitalist can be and are mainly concerned with the bottom line and preserving profit. These guys in suits know that, for example, if they insure coastal areas and get hit with more hurricanes than expected by the actuarial tables, or we have a 3-ft sea level rise, it'll wipe them out. While idealogues like Mr. C are still beating the drums that global warming is all a "librul" conspiracy promulgated by a bunch of egghead scientists because they can get grants by raising an alarm.
Nothing in the world is more yielding and gentle than water. Yet it has no equal for conquering the resistant and tough. The flexible can overcome the unbending; the soft can overcome the hard. - Lao Tse
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Old 05-04-2009   #5
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You guys might find this fascinating, albeit scary: TIME LAPSES & PHOTOS
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Old 05-04-2009   #6
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The way I think of it is...
Do you like skiing?
Do you like whitewater?
Do you like it not being 115 degrees in the summer?
Why put that in jeoperdy? Even if there is no such thing as global warming and it is just liberal BS, what if there is global warming?
Sure I'm not the most convinced of it... There is always going to be conflicting data. But sometimes something is worth making an effort to keep even if it is not directly endangered...
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Old 05-04-2009   #7
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Well lets be clear, asking if someone likes kayaking, or skiing or whatever is a moot point. Scientists are very clear in stating that even if we stopped fossil fuels COLD--which in no way will happen for many many many years--this wouldnt stop the warming that will happen no matter what with the amounts of CO2 + other GW gases currently in the air and the feedbacks predicted. The sacrifices that people are going to be asked to make will only be helping those in the future.
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Old 05-05-2009   #8
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Originally Posted by rafterman2007 View Post
The sacrifices that people are going to be asked to make will only be helping those in the future.
How un-Republican to ask people to sacrifice to help the future of our planet!

This is one of the most selfish statements I have heard.
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Old 05-05-2009   #9
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Mr. C, the Bush Years were the "Golden Age" of ideology trumping sound science in government policy for people like you. Be foolishly nostalgic if you'd like, but be very clear: those dumb days are done. We now have a president who can read, write and speak, and who embraces fact over ideological fiction.

Robert W. Felix, the author whose website you drew upon for your opening post is NOT a climate scientist, but is a "former architect", and some of the "data" is courtesy of the impressive-sounding magazine "21st Century Science and Technology", a publication owned by none other than crackpot demagogue Lyndon LaRouche.
Uh, I'm just gonna go find a cash machine.
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Old 05-05-2009   #10
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Originally Posted by Riparian View Post
We now have a president who can read, write and speak, and who embraces fact over ideological fiction.

Hmmm....but I thought he was a Christian.
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