Bush, Putin, Ahmadinejad - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-15-2008   #1
 
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Bush, Putin, Ahmadinejad

It would be nice to exile these maniacs to some deserted island. Putin's going apeshit in Georgia, Ahmadinejad spoiling for a fight, and the Shrub in Chief seems to want to embroil us in a new Cold War AND a conflict in Iran.

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Old 08-15-2008   #2
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I wouldn't call what Putin's doing in Georgia "apeshit".
It's probably the most shrewd geo-political move Russia has made since the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Seriously, it's a stroke of genius in geo-politics.

In a single move (provoked by Georgia itself) Russia has proved that there is a limit to the Western European powers' influence.

NATO now has to realize that there will be consequences to trying to fence Russia in through the inclusion of former Soviet States in NATO.

Don't know what people have followed about the Georgian experiment as advanced by this Bush administration (and the pro-Western, democratically elected government of Shakishvili), but this is a reverse story of Kosovo/Bosnia/Serbia, and the Russians have done it brilliantly, exposing how Shrub's foreign policy has over-extended itself.

Between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea, the major players are two:
Russia
Iran

America is going to have to face the fact that one of those two powers is going to exert more control than "The West" (meaning NATO/Europe/US).

This region, unknown to America in any real sense, could very well come to be the new West Germany of 21st century geo-politics. And the US, having squandered its influence in Iraq, will have to watch and see what happens without being able to do much of any significance.

Putin really is a genius, but by no means a madman.
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Old 08-15-2008   #3
 
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OK, my post was a complete oversimplification of the situation in Georgia to be sure, but I stand by my position that Putin is a maniac... goaded by a moron. Shrub's missile defense system "strategery" (a system that doesn't even work yet.. if ever) has driven Putin to move on Georgia, which has taunted him thinking (foolishly) that they had the complete military support of the US behind them.

The neocons are comparing Putin to Hitler, something they seem to do automatically when an autocrat acts badly.

The thing that amazes me is that Bush/Cheney have been acting like America is the only superpower left (an article of faith amongst the PNAC neocon loons) and that we can conduct ourselves with impunity. The seem blithely unaware of the waning power of the US and the return of Russia's economic and military strength vis-a-vis petrodollars, er petroeuros. Couple their newfound wealth with a long history of border paranoia and the humiliation of the '90s, mix in some ultranationalism, and you've got the current situation.

Is there ANYTHING the Shrub HASN'T fucked up?
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Old 08-15-2008   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DurangoSteve View Post
Is there ANYTHING the Shrub HASN'T fucked up?
HIV in Africa. Not that most Americans care, but Bush's record of fighting the spread of HIV in Africa is better than B. Clinton's by far, and is having measurable success, aided in no small part by the oft-vilified US pharmeceutical industry.

Remember for that the Neocon movement "It's always 1938 somewhere"...
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Old 08-15-2008   #5
 
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OK, there is ONE THING he hasn't completely fucked up, and that is a pretty big success. Damn, it pains me to give the Shrub any credit!


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Originally Posted by heliodorus04 View Post
HIV in Africa. Not that most Americans care, but Bush's record of fighting the spread of HIV in Africa is better than B. Clinton's by far, and is having measurable success, aided in no small part by the oft-vilified US pharmeceutical industry.

Remember for that the Neocon movement "It's always 1938 somewhere"...
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Old 08-15-2008   #6
 
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HIV in Africa. Not that most Americans care, but Bush's record of fighting the spread of HIV in Africa is better than B. Clinton's by far.
OK, I can't help it. You are truly a moron!

Sorry for the namecalling, I just can't stand it when people talk based on snippets of propaganda, and take it to be the truth, or something that actually has happened.

And for the record, I don't think BC did anything useful with aids either.
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Old 08-15-2008   #7
 
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OK, I can't help it. You are truly a moron!

Sorry for the namecalling, I just can't stand it when people talk based on snippets of propaganda, and take it to be the truth, or something that actually has happened.

And for the record, I don't think BC did anything useful with aids either.
The President's Emergency Plan for Aids Relief (Pepfar) has been underway since 2004, distributing anti-retroviral drugs in Africa. It's been a big success. Of course there is the idiotic Republican requirement that one-third of the money must be spent on "abstinence" programs (!), but aside from that stupidity it's a pretty damned good program.

I liked Bill Clinton, but he didn't do SQUAT about AIDS in Africa. I loathe the Shrub, but he actually did something right. It pains me to say that.
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Old 08-15-2008   #8
 
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Originally Posted by DurangoSteve View Post
The President's Emergency Plan for Aids Relief (Pepfar) has been underway since 2004, distributing anti-retroviral drugs in Africa. It's been a big success. Of course there is the idiotic Republican requirement that one-third of the money must be spent on "abstinence" programs (!), but aside from that stupidity it's a pretty damned good program.
I'm interested in seeing some references that support this. Everything I've heard is that it's been a LOT of talk, and nowhere even close to the action they said it was going to be. I'm not interested in what they said they were going to do, I'm interested in what they've done. Unfortunately there is usually a HUGE disparity.
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Old 08-15-2008   #9
 
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Originally Posted by lhowemt View Post
I'm interested in seeing some references that support this. Everything I've heard is that it's been a LOT of talk, and nowhere even close to the action they said it was going to be. I'm not interested in what they said they were going to do, I'm interested in what they've done. Unfortunately there is usually a HUGE disparity.
I cannot believe that I am actually defending The Shrub. I'm gonna have to drink a lot of red wine medicine tonight to feel better about this. In the meantime, here's an article from The Guardian, not exactly yer FOXnews GOP party line news outlet...

George Bush: a good man in Africa | World news | The Guardian
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Old 08-15-2008   #10
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OK, I can't help it. You are truly a moron!
Kinda sad response to someone. If you have facts to present, go with it. Otherwise you look like the moron.
I fully agree with Putin being a genius, just because he doesnt follow the american agenda doesnt make him crazy. This also gives him great leverage to buddy up with Iran.
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