Planning vs. Displacement for creeker - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 09-01-2009   #1
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BZN, Montana
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Planning vs. Displacement for creeker

So I feel like I'm outgrowing my EZ. It's served me well but I need to get a dedicated creeker for running harder stuff, and a legit playboat to do things besides slow cartwheels and big squirts. I know what I want in a playboat but I need some guidance concerning the creekboat.

I just want to get into something that I can move from IV into solid V realm. Not sure if I will still be in CO next season, but I'd like to be paddling things next season like Gore, Black Rock, West Fork CC.

I don't need top of the line boating, just something solid. I've paddled diplacement and planning before, and displacement doesn't feel right. Neither does having a huge boat around me. I'm sure I can get used to both. I've heard some planning hull large volume boats are total hole bait and no good for creeking IE burn.

The old way of thinking is displacement for creeking but it seems to be changing a little. What should I be looking for?

Also please don't post demo demo demo. I've paddled different boats. I just haven't needed the volume for the stuff I've run. I'd like to move the point where a larger platform is beneficial, but would like to get comfortable in the boat I'm running said harder stuff in. I will only get comfortable after a few runs on stuff I have dialed already.

If you think I should quit being a pussy and run harder stuff for the first time in my EZ please let me know as well.

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Old 09-01-2009   #2
 
Fort Collins, Colorado
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I did the same thing a few years ago...sold the Big EZ and got a playboat and creeker.

I dabbled in displacement hull creekers, but found it tough making the transition when I was paddling in my planing hull playboat 90% of the time. I just didn't feel like I could make as quick or as precise a turn in the displacement hulled boats.

Finally bought a Pyranha H3-245 and loved it, except it lacked a little volume for my size. Bought a medium Burn a couple years back and have been even happier with it.

I'm sure someone will say to get a displacement hull for big drops or to avoid catching edges. But if you're used to minding your edges in your playboat, and don't plan to run 20+ ft drops, I don't think edges are a liability.

As far as hole bait goes, I think that applies to any boat that's entirely too big for you. Try to find one that puts you near the middle of the weight range.
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Old 09-02-2009   #3
 
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Yep, yep. I agree with Paul. I learned to paddle in an edgy little liquid logic play boat, and when it was time to step it up I switched to a Jefe - and didn't like it, I didn't like the way the displacement hull handled, plus it was too big for me (hole bait, hard to roll). Now I am paddling a Pyranha Ammo (small) and love it. I am only 135 lbs. and toward the upper end of it's weight range, much more responsive and easy to roll. Works fantastic for class IV big water and creeking, plus I can surf it.
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Old 09-02-2009   #4
 
surrounded by mountains, Colorado
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The runs you mentioned are not exactly considered creek boating. They are still more class IV-V river running. Nonetheless, if you are not into displacement hulls then I would strongly recommend the following boats:
-the Diesel (I love my 65, but haven't paddled the new generation),
-the Wave Sport Y (older but an excellent boat),
-the Hero (get the correct size, the regular Hero is 75 gal and feels big to some people that fall into its suggested weight range, the Super Hero is very large, the Little Hero is an awesome boat for smaller people)
-the Burn.

If you want a true creek boat it will be a displacement hull. Which, should probably only feel foriegn for a couple or more trips. Generally, once you take it to a calm lake and have someone assist in viewing when you've adjusted the seat just right to get the boat trimmed out perfectly, and the rest of the outfitting just right, you will discover they give you excellent feel and control as opposed to just relying on the primary stability of a planing hull. Plus, for real creek boating you will greatly appreciate not having the sharp angular edges to hang and trip you up with. Also, softer landings on boofs and falls. For creek boats I strongly recommend: the Habitat or Rocker (Punk Rocker in my case). There are some other excellent creekers, too, but I give these two thumbs up.

Hope this helps you.
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Old 09-02-2009   #5
 
Golden, Colorado
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For very shallow, bony creeks, then a displacement hull is nice so you don't get the edges hung up on the rocks, flipping you in just the kind of river where you can take a beating on the river bottom before you have a chance to roll up.
On the bigger volume "creeks" that you are mentioning, the it is all about eddy catching,and that is where a planing hulled boat with sharper edges comes into it's own. You can also choose boats such as the Fun and Hero that share very similar hull characteristics, so when you have been playing for a couple of weeks and then jump into your creeker, then you don't feel like you have to get used to the bigger boat all over again.
Plus, some creeks have very fun play waves and it is handy to have a boat that will surf.
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Old 09-02-2009   #6
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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as a fellow buzzard put it.

"think anyone wants a roundhouse kick to the face when [you're in one of these] bad boys:



I DON'T THINK SO."
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Old 09-02-2009   #7
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I had the same dilemma a few years back. Literally. I had an EZ and wanted something for running harder water. Being on the Front Range, I also really wanted to work up to doing some legit creek boating. Because of that I went for a more displacement-like hull. It was no doubt a harder transition than getting something with a more pronounced edge, but I got used to it and never looked back. I think if you plan to run low volume, rocky steep creeks and/or larger vertical drops (where impact becomes a factor) the displacement is the better choice. If you're running lots of bigger pushy water, more edge is probably the better choice. I would base my choice on what the appropriate boat is for your goals, not what is the easiest transition from the EZ.

However, it's not true that boats like the Burn are inappropriate for creeking. People have been proving that wrong the last few years. Some of it will come down to personal preference (it's give and take), but it is true that less edge = less chance of getting hung up on rocks (when you hit them) and less impact to the back. The counter argument would be that more edge will = less likely to hit the rock in the first place and more likely to be on line and setting my angle above a large vertical drop.
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Old 09-02-2009   #8
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If you like the feel of a planing hull but don't want to get tripped up by sharp edges of other planing hull boats check out a Liquid Logic Remix. It's a bit long (6 inches) longer than a Jefe, has the same outfitting, and a smooth hull shape. Something between full displacement and planing. I also find it easier to roll than a Jefe.
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Old 09-02-2009   #9
 
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I personally agree with this assessment. I just got into creeking last season and first bought a mega rocker (displacement hull) and it just didn't work for me personally. I couldn't pick a line at all and stay on it. Obviously this had more to do with me than the boat, but when I went to the super hero it was just much better for me personally. I feel like over the course of this season I was actually able to learn some creeking skills, and now can actually visualize my line, get there and stay on it for the most part. I feel the displacement hull did perform a tad better on say rock boofs due to the smooth hull, but really, it is that much of an issue when you consider all the other factors? I don't feel the edge is really a serious concern for our style of creeking in Colodado.

Those that say a planing hull is hole bait--I'n not sure where you get that idea. Let's face it--we are gonna get worked from time to time in a hole, and I personally like being able to rely on my playboating skills to help get me out of there! A displacement hull will respond quite a bit differently in a hole than you may be used to (and yeah, sure, avoid the hole in the first place, but anybody who hasn't gotten worked in a hole isn't runnin the meat...).

Finally, anyone who says you can't "seriously" creek with edges obviously hasn't watched the Demshitz crew run anything--they run the gnar in a Burn, and run that $hit better than most out there.

Here's to paddling, whatever boat you choose!


Quote:
Originally Posted by KSC View Post
I had the same dilemma a few years back. Literally. I had an EZ and wanted something for running harder water. Being on the Front Range, I also really wanted to work up to doing some legit creek boating. Because of that I went for a more displacement-like hull. It was no doubt a harder transition than getting something with a more pronounced edge, but I got used to it and never looked back. I think if you plan to run low volume, rocky steep creeks and/or larger vertical drops (where impact becomes a factor) the displacement is the better choice. If you're running lots of bigger pushy water, more edge is probably the better choice. I would base my choice on what the appropriate boat is for your goals, not what is the easiest transition from the EZ.

However, it's not true that boats like the Burn are inappropriate for creeking. People have been proving that wrong the last few years. Some of it will come down to personal preference (it's give and take), but it is true that less edge = less chance of getting hung up on rocks (when you hit them) and less impact to the back. The counter argument would be that more edge will = less likely to hit the rock in the first place and more likely to be on line and setting my angle above a large vertical drop.
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Old 09-02-2009   #10
 
Fort Collins, Colorado
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For those suggesting that edges can get caught on a rock and result in a flip, how often has that happened to you in a planing hull creeker? Is it speculation or experience?

I haven't had that experience, but am probably not running the same gnar as some of you. However, I am running low volume creeklike runs: Middle/Lower Narrows, Spencer Heights, Big Thompson. I've hit many a rock sideways...sometimes I manage to slide over it, sometimes I come to an abrubt stop, lean downstream and slide around it. The abrubt stop actually helps me lean the right way...keeping my upstream edge out of the water and me upright. It seems like a round hull in some situations could actually slide up the rock, then allow you to topple over the upstream direction, making an upstream flip more likely rather than less. Just speculating...
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