Paddle ???s- need a few answers - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 06-27-2008   #1
KDT
 
Telluride, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1492
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 207
Send a message via AIM to acetomato
Paddle ???s- need a few answers

I'm looking at buying a new paddle and have a few questions.
I'm in my 3rd season of paddling and running mostly class III to IV- stuff and building towards more IV's and eventually V.

I'm currently using a Werner Desperado- I know it's not a great paddle. It's the first one I bought and it's been serving me quite well. I think it's time to move on to something better and I want to go bent shaft & I think 15 degree offset? (anyone have opinions on angles?)

I've realized that in kayaking most people fall into either the Werner side or the AT side. It doesn't seem like too many people really like both. Thought I was going with AT but after messing around with them in shops I think I'm a Werner person. For me they just seem to feel "right" in my hands.

I'm a pretty big guy in a SuperFun & a SuperStar and about to get a MegaRocker or Jefe Grande. I realize my strokes aren't quite as quick as smaller paddlers so I'm thinking with my size and strength I want to go with a larger blade size to take advantage of those traits. Does that sound right?

Now my two actual questions are this:

If I'm looking at getting just one paddle to use for everything (playing, river running, creeking) do i want to go with a play paddle or a river runner?
What's the disadvantage of using the play paddle all the time? I've heard that alot of people use them for creeking. I've been told that for river running their stroke isn't as smooth but how much of a difference is there really?

Second question is more specific to Werner paddles. How much of a difference is there between the carbon fiber and the performance core carbon paddles? If' i'm doing a custom order (to get the 15 degree offset) is it worth it to just spend the extra money for the performance core or is it not really noticeable?

Thanks in advance for the help.
-k

acetomato is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2008   #2
 
Commercial Paleontology
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 214
Paddles

Hello K,

I am a big guy & definitely put the paddles to the test because of it. I started out with Werner Powerhouses straight shaft 45 degree 200cm which have done me well. But with the fiberglass blades it wouldn't take me real long before i had worn them down quite abit & would be noticebly losing a strong stroke. Good thing is that they are fairly indestructble. Yet to come close to breaking one. As I became a better paddler I decided to treat myself to a upgrade. Foam core/carbon, etc.... so I bought the tried & true... an AT2. bent shaft 45 degree 1999cm. I had talked to a fair amout of boaters before this when I'd see someone using an AT & many had said they were still using the same one for years...It is super smooth to paddle,comfortable, floats to the surface more so in rolls. I luved it... but within a month it was broke!.. AT sent me a new one pronto..Thanxs AT.... But now I was hesitant. I hadn't really taken into account that most of those previous folks I had talked to were 175 lbs & under. After a couple runs with the new one I put a small dimple in the blade face which can easily happen w/ any foam core. Easy to fix though.... but that just made me more hesitant..last thing i need is when I am in the shit to be worried about my paddle breaking. So I went back to a Werner. Just recently bought a new Powerhouse but did upgrade a bit by getting the carbon which is slightly lighter & a little stiffer so it feels more responsive... I did go to a 30 degree offset & I am liking it because I am also using the paddle for play boating.... I am very happy with it overall... I have tried the Sidekick & it seems a little better for playing because it feels like it engages the water faster with more surface area but I still stayed with the Powerhouse & I'd say mainly because that's just what I was use too so no good techy reason. The Player I also tried but the blade surface area was to small for me. Felt like one of my worn down Powerhouses.. lacking the power!.... Down side to new Werner I bought is it's totally black but hopefully without jinxing myself I have been very good about keeping hold of my paddles but I put some yellow & reflective tape on the shaft & a couple stickers on the blade & it's good to go on visiblity. Anyway I do luv the feel of the AT the best but will stick with Werner for the confidence in breakability ...... Want to buy an AT? HA! But truly it is for sale if anyone that reads this is interested.............So much for my 2 cents.
MtnGuyXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2008   #3
 
st2eelpot's Avatar
 
Professional Transient, See above.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 350
Paddle shmaddle

A lot of it will be what you get used to. Beware of marketing.

If you have the option, just try out as many paddles as possible.

That being said:
I use a Werner Double D 197 right, 30 degree offset, straight shaft which I think is fine that I can't seem to break. It's a playboat paddle though I mainly do creek boating and big water stuff. I guess it makes me less smooth due to faster engagement while on rivers? but I really don't notice. In my own preference, I now wish I'd gotten a 194, but it still works fine.

I also don't find the foam core to be worth the extra price. Sure, it helps it feel lighter when it's underwater, but I can do without. I am pleased with how strong the blade is (I'm hard on gear), and wish I could break it so I could buy the 194 w/o the foam.

If you're going to be doing playboating, I wouldn't recommend anything more than a 30 degree bend, but that's just me (not the greatest playboater). Some people go all the way to the 0 degree offset on the blades for playboating, but I do like a little wrist twist (easier anatomically) as well as the aerodynamics in the wind so I won't go with a 0 degree.

As far as bent shaft vs straight shaft, again preference. The over all belief is that the bent shaft is more anatomical thus comfortable, is more expensive, and is heavier. It's easier to find where your hands should go on a bent shaft, though it also means you have less places you can comfortably put your hands on the paddle (my grip was a bit wide for some of the bent shafts I first tried). The straight shaft is lighter, cheaper, and if I have to switch to my breakdown paddle it won't be as big of a jump in the middle of a river.

An annoyance with some of the bent shafts, for me, is that the blade isn't in the same place when the blade position is drawn in relation to where my hand is. My favorite blades that seem to do a really good job of this are the high end Ty Warps from Germany (their 'negative blade' thing). I heard you can now get them in the U.S., but last I checked they were $500+ (and I've yet to actually see one of those anywhere in the U.S.)? In the last few years, the Ty Warps that were imported were the cheapo/easy to break ones. [Actually, glancing at the ty warp page just now they've redone the line up, so who knows how their bent shafts are now.]

Hell, some of the old Lightning blades from the '80s out there are great.
st2eelpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-28-2008   #4
 
Wydaho, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 118
I'm 6'6" 220 lbs and use a bent shaft sidekick 197 (can't remember the offset right now). Feels good for play boating (not much of a play boater), but at times I wish I had a 200cm+ for creeking. I bought an AT when I broke my Waterstick a few years back, but never liked it (I must be a Werner guy) so I bought the Sidekick, and its on season numero tres.

I'm eventually planning to buy a longer Werner for river running, just don't have the funds right now.

My .02,

Doug
dvanhouten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2008   #5
 
yourrealdad's Avatar
 
185 lb. waste of space, Keeping Glenwood Springs real
Paddling Since: 1864
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 928
If I had to buy one paddle to do everything (which I do) I would buy a creeking paddle. My personal Favorite is the werner powerhouse. Used to go all carbon, bent shaft 30 degrees. But I think I am going to stick to Fiberglass from now on as they are cheaper and I feel sturdier. I have broken $900 worth of carbon fiber this year on spots that they shouldn't break. (P.S. I have broken the shit out of AT carbons as well, and hate the way they feel on the grips) The reason for using a creeking paddle is I want the best paddle for the hardest kayaking. My life isn't involved with playboatin and I suck at it anyways. So I would rather have a paddle designed for the scary shit.
__________________
970-217-21 six six
Kevin
http://liquiddescents.blogspot.com/
yourrealdad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008   #6
KDT
 
Telluride, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1492
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 207
Send a message via AIM to acetomato
st2eelpot- do you actually not like the foam core or do you just not feel its worth the extra money?
__________________
I was going to be vague but then I decided to do this other thing.
acetomato is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008   #7
 
st2eelpot's Avatar
 
Professional Transient, See above.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 350
foam core

I don't mind the foam core- nothing against it. But, to me it's certainly not worth the money.

I am curious if the foam changes the strength of the blade, since it is thicker, but I don't know where to find out that information. I've been quite abusive to the blades and they're not as worn as I'd expect them to be.
st2eelpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008   #8
 
Commercial Paleontology
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 214
Paddles

The ends of the foam core paddles are certainly tuff enough & hold up well. It is the face of the blade that is suceptible to being dimpled, punctured & even cracked. These wounds can be fixed with epoxy and sanded down basically back to new but personally I don't want to have to deal with that. Then I end up being shy with it. Prime example is the All Day Wave on Shoshone where you are battling up along the rocks to get in there & you can end up hitting the blade face on the rocks. That's how I punched mine in but any solid brace from a big guy hitting a rock & it's off the the body shop. They do certainly rise to the surface in rolling better & float better but that's not worth the extra money to me.
MtnGuyXC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008   #9
 
FatmanZ's Avatar
 
Northern Utah, Utah
Paddling Since: 1990
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 687
H20 paddles

I'm 6'3", 250lbs, stick mainly to class III. Used Waterstick paddles for years, then a few years ago picked up a Werner Carbon 197 Bent 12 degree offset Powerhouse. It was a solid paddle, Werner is the quality benchmark - but I sold it as I didn't care for the grips - found them to be too slick, even when waxed.

Now using a an H2O paddle (H2O-2 model) 197, bent, 12 degree offset, fiberglass shaft, plastic blades. The twp best things about the paddle are 1. the blades are bomber and take abuse without showing it and 2. the paddle has rubberized grips (santoprene) that are the best thing on the market. Try one out if you get a chance.

The TyWarps I checked out looked cool, super light, and decent price ($200 bent shaft). I'd get one for my kids, but I'd be afraid of breaking it.

Cheers!
FatmanZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2008   #10
KDT
 
Telluride, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1492
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 207
Send a message via AIM to acetomato
Thanks for the info from everyone so far. I really appreciate the feedback.

FatmanZ- If you ever go back to Werner (or any other non- gripped paddle) try the grip tape. It is so much better than paddle wax and no mess. Jagged Edge carries it here in T-ride but I'm sure any kayak shops up there would have it too. It's only like $5 a roll and will do yours and probably 5-10 friends paddles.
__________________
I was going to be vague but then I decided to do this other thing.
acetomato is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Creek boats: several questions, looking for answers and opinions. WyoPadlr1 Kayaking | Gear Talk 0 05-12-2008 05:05 PM
Citizen Paddle Club event IV: Kid's Paddle Day rhastrei Whitewater Kayaking 1 07-27-2006 04:20 PM
Citizen Paddle Club event III: Intermediate Downriver Paddle rhastrei Whitewater Kayaking 0 07-19-2006 10:42 AM
Citizen Paddle Club event II: Beginner downriver paddle rhastrei Whitewater Kayaking 1 07-14-2006 07:51 AM
Tuck, air paddle, or paddle overhead? pauley Whitewater Kayaking 1 06-10-2006 11:47 PM

» Classified Ads
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.