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Paco pads in winter

12K views 27 replies 19 participants last post by  Jahve 
#1 ·
Was wondering if paco pads provide enough ground insulation for winter use...yea or nay?

Reason I ask, I just bought a 3" pad & tried it out this weekend in sub freezing temps. Had some cold spots on my back - not sure if it's the pad (pvc felt cold), my (new) sleeping bag, or both.
 
#3 ·
I put a fleece blanket in my sleep kit for winter trips and winter nights in the back of my truck or out in the desert. I have a two inch paco, and I've always been cozy. Sometimes it goes over me and my bag, and sometimes I put it underneath, but on top of the paco.
 
#6 ·
I don't think you could find too much better a winter pad than a paco. I use one in my igloo all the time. Unrealistic for mountaineering or backpacking, but it would be as comfortable as you could get.

I've slept on therm-a-rests, cheapie closed cell foam, and inflatable pads in sub-zero temps and found the pad factor to be minimal compared to what warmth of sleeping bag you're in (unless you have no pad - that is significant).

Another factor is the surface the pad is on. Sleeping on snow or a tent floor over snow is much warmer than being on your deck, concrete, or bare ground.
 
#10 ·
It's the air pockets that insulate, so you want something that will not compress too much. The more whatever you sleep on compresses, the colder it will feel. I wouldn't think there's much available that will prevent you from feeling cold when the ground below you is very cold.

Somebody needs to invent a battery powered paco pad warmer.
 
#13 ·
Haha..

They work great if there is enough room to take them along. We use sleds on most winter camping trips and I bring mine every time. I use a -30 north face and when sleeping on a paco almost never get cold.

As logan said they seem to come in handy in a lot of ways.

Paco Pad Sledding - YouTube
 
#14 ·
We use the Aire Landing pads with an LL Bean 200 weight fleece sleeping bag liner wrapped around. The pads fit perfectly inside the sleeping bag liners so they don't bunch up. My mom uses a Sotar pad with an Eddy Bauer bag liner. Same great fit and super warm. They work very well for the GC, too. And the Rogue in winter, the MFS in May, etc.
 
#15 ·
I was not joking about pulling a sled behind the snowmachines - we take a lot of gear and paco's work great.. After a few days out when just skiing pow gets boring it seems who ever had the most PBR picks out a line and gets it done paco pad style.

Super fun and the pics below show that zone a bit better. Chris did over 600' of vert in that video. Cant wait for some snow to get back out there!







 
#19 ·
Using any inflatable pad (or foam pad) on snow, it helps a lot to get a piece of Reflectix insulation (aluminized bubble wrap, sold in most hardware stores). The air gap in combination with the reflective surface really makes a difference in your heat loss.

Expedition snow campers know that after a few days, your sleeping spots will melt out, forcing you to move the tent. The reflective bubblewrap stuff keeps this from happening. And it's cheap. A 24" x 25' roll will make three extra long sleeping pads. It's also excellent in Porta-ledges for hanging bivys on wall climbs.

Put a Paco on top of Reflectix, and you'll think you're in heaven.
 
#20 ·
The thicker the pad, the greater the internal volume. A greater volume, especially without insulating foam or baffles, allows for increased convection inside the pad. This is why conventional air mattresses are lousy for cold weather camping. A thin pad that barely elevates your core from the ground is best. If you have the inflatable Paco, you might try deflating it a bit.
 
#21 ·
I've used my paco down to -10 F I think (may've been slightly colder?) with a -20 F sleeping bag. Toasty warm. I remember being a little concerned when I rolled it back up in the morning. It was super stiff and wouldn't deflate/roll very well. I recall hearing that that some pvc rafts aren't that pliable below 20 F (no idea if that is true or not) and didn't want to crack the paco. No problems.
 
#22 ·
As a couple people have mentioned... Closed-cell insulation is the key if you are looking for the best cold weather insulation. Above, people mention putting the Reflectix or other closed-cell pads under the Paco, but I like to put a Ridge-Rest, or similar, on top. That way the best insulation is right under my body and I still have the cushion of the Paco.
 
#23 ·
Paco Pads+ Sleep System

So my Fiancee' and I camped out over the weekend...it got to right around freezing...not bad I know, but we were very comfortable and slept well. Here is our tried and true sleep system which we have dialed in over the years. It tends to work really well for us, and has kept us warm down to zero degrees. Take my opinion for that alone, hopefully it adds some insight for your warmth issues.

-Sierra Design 4 Season convertable tent (with footprint underneath)
-Mexican Blanket or other comp. down on the floor of the tent.
-2 inch paco pads.
-Over the pads, we use a fitted twin sheet as an added thin layer...it does a nice job reducing the cold or annoying aspects of PVC...in summer a cotton fitted sheet works, for colder seasons try a flannel or fleece sheet...also, a twin fitted sheet keeps the pads together nicely.
-Brand-Name zero degree synthetic bags...I know many of you love down, and I recognize its superior warmth to weight ratios, but I can't get over the idea of it getting wet and essentially being useless.
-Inside the bags I like to use a 4x4 fleece blanket...you know, one of those cheapie $9.99 things, but it adds a layer of comfort and is great to use by itself when a zero degree is too warm. (also, a silk liner adds some nice comfort without really any space or weight)
-Finally, when it is REALLY cold, I pack another mexican blanket or older fleece blanket to go over the bags...toasty.

Again, just my two cents, but it really works for us, and other than it taking up some space...it is worth it for the comfort factor...I beleive you can sleep warm with a Paco Pad down to the coldest nights with the right additional gear.

Stay warm out there...

Bucket
 
#24 ·
Paco pads are one of the best pads for warmer temps on river trips. I have 3 of them, and have over 500 nights of sleep on them. But, they suck in the winter. The PVC retains too much cold. You'll be fine till you move or roll over! I use a pad by Therm-a-rest called the "Dream Time". I wish they made it a bit wider. Mine is 3"x30"x78". I sold both name brands for many years and they both are good. Only complaint w/ the Dream Time on the river is it needs to be kept in a dry bag. All warm sleeping bags compress to nothing under your weight, so could sweat and freeze all at the same time w/ a sub zero bag in sub zero temps. Good luck.
 
#26 ·
I have solved my problems with a wet and dirty paco pad in the winter. Cleaning and drying them out sucked, esp when its raining. I had the same cold spot issues as well as skin sticking to the PVC. After the light in my head came on, I tried throwing the wet and dirty pacos down on the ground and put the tent on top of them. I've never had an issue since and the time I used to spend on the paco is now spent doing what I want to be doing.
 
#28 ·
A friend who runs a trapping line and basically camps all winter turned me on to a great way to stay warm in the winter - paco on a cot and a tipi. Easy to carry in the BC on a snowmachine.

Simple system to set up lightweight and with the stove they are super warm even down to -30+. After a night or two in one you will wonder why you ever had a tent. The 8 or 12 man work best.

The light weight stoves are easy to carry only down side is that you have to stoke the stove every couple of hrs at night. Hot coffee/bfast is not a bad thing either!

Ck em out..

Tipis

Also take your boot warmers - drop a heat pack in each one put them on your boots and wake up to dry/warm boots no matter how cold it gets outside.



 
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