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Old 09-29-2008   #21
 
Chip's Avatar
 
SE, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lax71vcu View Post
Is the 1.315 OD tubing the same as 1 3/8 OD tubing?
The small toprail is 1.315", about 1-5/16". 1-3/8" would be 1.375". So my guess would be that it's too big for the 1-inch IPS SpeedRail joints. If you have an open end, measure it to be sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lax71vcu View Post
What do you think about the vinyl coated galvanized tubing? Waste of time or worth the extra $? On the other frame post you have up you mentioned several types of oar stands. Which would work best with the 1 3/8 OD tubing?
Never used vinyl-coated tubing, but I've got two Jack's Pack Cats with plastic-coated welded steel frames that I like. Coating is probably best suited to one-piece welded frames.

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Here are the oarstands (from NRS several years ago) that I use on the double-rail frame, with extra holes drilled, fastened with u-bolts and carriage bolts. Mounted on plywood (old cupboard door) they stiffen up the frame and provide a step.

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On the single rail frame, this is the NRS cast 6-inch stand, made to fit 1-5/8" tubing. For the 1-5/16" frame tubing, I slipped some fuel line (gray) over the NRS u-bolt and slit some reinforced vinyl hose (you can see the fibrous edges) to slip over the frame tubing.

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You have to crank the u-bolt really tight, and the exposed threads inboard are a hazard, so I capped it with an acorn nut. These are what I've got. There are other good oarstands out there— you need to look for something that works for your application.

Have fun—
Chip

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Old 09-29-2008   #22
 
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at my house, Montana
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Oar Stands

I just put on (sort of) the new DRE oarstands. so far they seem better than the Clavey/AAA, not as much of a weird off-set sweep angle. but, the hole for the oarlock shaft is longer, so my springs won't fit. Then I also discover the cobra is bent at the top of the shaft. With 3 washers up there I get the bend up out of the oarstand hole and it pivots fine. So I just will put a few washers above, and more below, no springs. Go to hardware store to get washers. Problem - the clearance on the DRE stand is tight and the hardware store washers are a bit wider (OD) than the ones that come with the spring set. WTF! Amazing how all this rigging and all I need are a bunch of washers that I can't find. Oh well, NRS is going to let me know when they get more in (or maybe they'll tell me the spec/source for a washer fora 5/8" bolt with an OD<= 1 1/8"). Standard washers (local hardware) are 1 1/2"(+?) or more which shouldn't matter, but when I mean tight clearance, I mean tight! Nothing like spending time on the internet searching for washers!

But once I get this figured out, I think the DRE will be the way to go. I ordered them 2" extra long.
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Old 09-30-2008   #23
 
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SE, Wyoming
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Can you clamp the washers in a vise and file off one side flat, so they'll fit?

Another scam is to get washers with the right OD and then drill out the holes.

Seems like you could clamp the oarlock in a big vise and whang on it (with care) to straighten the shaft, which is bronze and malleable.

Sounds like you're having fun—

Chip
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Old 10-12-2008   #24
 
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SE, Wyoming
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The Perfect Frame. . .

Is the one I just built.

Just back from eight days on Deso. The frame worked really well with no problems whatsoever. The PolyMax floor (and the hoseclamp attachment system) is great: really light but strong and instantly self-bailing.

The dog deck worked as well, but Ruby had company. Despite getting the boat gear and food and shuttle nailed, I managed to leave the seatframe for Deb's Pack Cat on the shelf in the garage, so she had to ride the barge with me & the doggo.

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She was mad at first, but a few days of heavy cloud and killer upstream wind made her think that she was lucky not to be paddling (plus the weather gods were punishing me for my lapse).

Anyhow, here's the rig: Jack's Stretch Flyer Cat, 15 ft x 19-in. tubes, for 2 people, 1 dog, 8 days. There were two 3-gal. watercans flat under the seat, with the rolling table and tent under the dog decks to either side— no wasted space. The drinks were in the two black side bags and a heavy-duty mesh dish dryer (with a velcro-sealing top flap) that's rigged crosswise between the front and main frame, where it gets splashed but doesn't drag in the water. The bottom of the floor was about 2" above the water and the trim was perfect, fore & aft. With Deb added, it was an inch down in the stern: not bad.

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Here it is without the load.

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Having a dog deck on both sides was nice— Ruby could switch when she got restless or scented something, and Deb could sprawl onto the other deck. There was enough room for Ruby to snooze, which she did pretty often: curled, flat, propped, hanging over the edge.

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Home is where you find it—

Chip
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Old 10-13-2008   #25
 
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good lord! No wonder why you use such a small cooler, that thing is loaded to the gills.

Wow, you must owe backrubs for a year or something, leaving her frame behind!

How was the trip, nice fall colors?
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Old 10-13-2008   #26
 
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Looks like a big load, but with mostly lightweight gear it's not particularly heavy.

For instance I used a Coleman 2 burner PowerMax stove + 3 cartridges @ 4.5 lbs. (vs. Partner 2-burner (9.5 lbs.) + propane tank & hose 25+ lbs. The two-bucket toilet setup (one with seat, the other for storing full WAG bags) is about 5 lbs vs. the Eco-safe tank in a rocket box, 33+ lbs. The roll-up table is 8 lbs. vs. Cambridge plywood/steel table 30 lbs.

That's about 80 lbs. diff, and I can go down the list. Which gave us slack for some luxuries, like a little hooded grill & charcoal. Decent wine. Etc.

We were damn glad for the light gear and a breakdown frame when the upstream wind stopped us dead a couple miles above the take-out ramp. That last day I had to row like a bloody Viking just to get down the rapids and riffles, and there was a steep chop blowing upstream. After fighting for three hours, we unloaded on a cobble bar and bushwhacked the whole lot up to the dirt road. The floor and bottom part of the frame comes off with 4 setscrews (SpeedRail, yes!!), so we were able to pack that up in two pieces. If we'd had the usual Grand Canyon style heavyweight stuff, it would've been torture rather than merely unpleasant.

About the conditions: chill, wet, and blowing first couple days; beautiful for the heart of Desolation Canyon; then back to blustery for Gray Canyon with a cold front the last day. The cottonwoods were barely starting to turn, with boxelder about halfway, and some deep reds and golds in the sumac, poison ivy, etc.

The flashflood at Joe Hutch Canyon was tremendous:

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The new rapid's fun, sorta like a mini Steer Ridge at this point, with a steep tongue, breaking waves, and rocks to dodge below. I took some shots, but hate to take away the suspense. Should be a thumper at high water next year.

We had 14°F last night. It just broke freezing, so I have to go wash the frame and tubes.

cheers,
Chip
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Old 03-05-2009   #27
 
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Chip,
First..thanks for all of the helpful information you're sharing with frames. I've been scouring the site for the last couple of weeks and you've continually had great information posted.

Onto my question…I'm salvaging/changing an incomplete frame that I bought and it has Sids Sports standard corner double rails. It has the 1 3/8 OD top rail tubing that, from what I learned on this thread, speedrails aren't compatible. From the photos of your frame, it looks like you've used the same Sid's Sports double rail but you've also used the speedrails. So can the Sid Sports corners connect to1.315 OD tubing?

Thanks
John
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Old 03-05-2009   #28
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oslo View Post
Chip,
First..thanks for all of the helpful information you're sharing with frames. I've been scouring the site for the last couple of weeks and you've continually had great information posted.

Onto my question…I'm salvaging/changing an incomplete frame that I bought and it has Sids Sports standard corner double rails. It has the 1 3/8 OD top rail tubing that, from what I learned on this thread, speedrails aren't compatible. From the photos of your frame, it looks like you've used the same Sid's Sports double rail but you've also used the speedrails. So can the Sid Sports corners connect to1.315 OD tubing?

Thanks
John
Chips on a Buzz Hiatus, you might get him by PM'ing though.
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Old 03-05-2009   #29
 
Rainy Northwest, Washington
Paddling Since: 1980
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip View Post
Ohhh— You mean polyurethane varnish. I was thinking maybe you had raft trouble.

One durable treatment for plywood, etc. against exposure to water and elements is to use a marine-grade epoxy, like the West System products. They sell kits with the basic epoxy resin, with a choice of catalyst (fast-set, slow-set) and also various solvents and fillers. It can be combined with fabrics (fiberglass, kevlar, carbon, dynel) for lay-ups, or just used as a kind of super-varnish.

I made the mistake of using cheap polyester resin (from one of those auto-body repair kits) that looked good at first, but bleached and started to peel away from the edges after a couple years. The marine grade stuff can be had from boatbuilding supply outlets like Jamestown Distributors or West Marine.

I've used both exterior polyurethane varnish and regular spar varnish (Behr Super Spar) for years— they seem to need a light sanding and another coat at regular intervals, when they go milky & dull.

I've got an aluminum dutchoven/frypan/griddle combo pan that I like. Not long since there was a big thread in The Eddy about dutch-oven recipes and lots of related stuff. I like cast-iron too— just not for river trips. Nancy Hess (Jack's sister) told me a story about losing the dutch-oven box off her boat on Cataract (ploop!) Sorta destroyed the plans for major cookery.

Chip

Chip

Just make sure that you varnish over the epoxy -- epoxy is not UV stable. It will start to degrade and flake in the sun, as I learned through hard experience.. Check out one of the wooden boat forums onthe issue.

Dan
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Old 03-06-2009   #30
 
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Thanks...I'll shoot him a PM this weekend.

John
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