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Is my gortex failing?

6K views 36 replies 15 participants last post by  homeworld8118 
#1 ·
I have noticed the past few times paddling my top looks wet in spots on the inside. I have only had this top about 5 months and have paddled it a few dozen times but this is the first time I have noticed this. I don't feel wet or excessively cold. My thermal shirt looks like it is a little spotty but I assumed was sweet. The large area is the back panel and the drip liking spot is the front neck gasket.

It's just odd like with the back panel that the one section looks wet but the tape and next panel doesn't. Is this maybe just from sweet? Thanks all for the look.

Murphy
 

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#4 ·
Hmm interesting. The seams seem to be good, I don't get wet. I sent and email to kokatat explaining the situation. I recently sprayed it with 303 for theirselves time the other day along with the rest of my gear. 303 is the recommended product by kokatat so I wouldn't think that it would have degraded the shell.
 
#6 ·
303 is generally used for latex or rubber compounds (neoprene). I use techwash to clean and tx-direct to add a bit of outer protection for gotetex, eVent, omnitech... 303 replenishes oils for rubber and kokatat recommends it for the gaskets but I've never seen it recommended for gortex. I wonder if the oils saturated the fabric and affected it somehow and that's what you are seeing.

I'm curious as to how kokatat responds to this one so keep us updated...

-Mr French
 
#8 ·
Thank you for the info mr French. I used it one the gaskets and thought to myself a little on the shell wouldn't hurt... Hope I wasn't wrong on this one. I also sent NRS an email since I ordered the top from them. I'll defiantly keep this thread updated with my findings.
 
#9 ·
I'll preface my comments with the fact that I don't know much about dry suits, but I do know a bit about waders; similar concept slightly different application. In you original post the pic on the right looks like a straight up pin hole leak. The pic on the left is strange, I'd wonder if it weren't a materials defect, but it could also be the start of some sort of mildew. I've had waders that looked like that, usually after a few years and in my case they were definitely mildew. It seems early in your case but if you've been in those a a lot and they weren't getting totally dry it's conceivable. Especially looking at the second set of pics. I'm not saying your a dirty bastard, it's just that the inside of dry gear is a prime place for funk to grow and it's possible that some sort of growth could short circuit the breathable membrane to allow a little moisture in, or simply collect interior moisture. I believe most companies have anti fungal compounds built into there gear so either way I'd be thinking warranty evaluation...
 
#10 ·
Keep it clean

You say that you have had it for around 5 months. How many times have you cleaned it? GoreTex, eVent, and Neoshell need to be clean to stay dry. Your own body oils can draw water through the fabric and are often the cause for most waterproof breathables to fail. A clean jacket is a dry piece of gear. When in dought wash it with a techwash cleaner, then add a new coating of DWR to the outside to aid in keeping dirt from bonding to the fabric. Same goes for your ski and rain coats as well. Hope this helps.
 
#11 ·
You say that you have had it for around 5 months. How many times have you cleaned it? GoreTex, eVent, and Neoshell need to be clean to stay dry. Your own body oils can draw water through the fabric and are often the cause for most waterproof breathables to fail. A clean jacket is a dry piece of gear. When in dought wash it with a techwash cleaner, then add a new coating of DWR to the outside to aid in keeping dirt from bonding to the fabric. Same goes for your ski and rain coats as well. Hope this helps.
and in light of Don's comments, try the clean before warranty consideration. He may have hit the nail on the head.

Edit, I went through a sales clinic with Arc' Teryx a number of years ago where they claimed that washing and then drying in medim heat (commonly not done) was key to revitalizing their DWR. FWI
 
#12 ·
After every use I wash it down with fresh water and hang to air dry. I store it in our spare bedroom witch is dark and cool. I haven't washed it with anything else beside that. It seems like if it were mold it would show up one other panels, especially the ones right next to it and in the arms right?
 
#14 ·
In all honesty cool dark places is where mold grows best; think about your crawl space...

...but I agree, I think it would be abnormal given the 5 mos. You might wait for response from the mfg but if they don't have good input try what Don said.

Nikwax has been a standby for years but I confess, I simply wash in light detergent (1/2 what ever the box recomends) and go from there. That's all on ski gear, I've never washed any of my waders (submersible gear).
 
#16 ·
home,

I'll differ to others on the tech wash question as I believe it's probably truly a gimick. I think the point is cleaning your gear without damaging the membrane. If it were me and I invested a grand into a dry suit (waders are half that and like I said I don't wash them, it's part of the experience :roll:) I'd simply look at the ingredients, or google it and come up with some sort of wash for myself. Last time I worked in a shop nikwax was like $20. I know it's a small cost given the initial investment but I have a hard time paying for water with chemicals I can find for much less. That's my 2 pennies.
 
#17 ·
From working at an outdoor retailer for four years, and going through many clinics from many diff companies (always wished kokatat would roll through), I've learned that reg detergent leaves residue that can clog the pores of breathable technical fabrics. Nickwax tech wash is a non detergent cleaner that leaves no residue and helps take out detergent residue. I also think that TX-Direct is nothing more than Elmer's Glue and water, but it works. I've used softshell proof on my skirt and it beads water for many uses.
I'de say I wash my gear once every 5-7 uses on average but I'll admit I don't rinse in between each use.

-Mr French
 
#18 ·
I use Revivex on all my waterproof breathables, has been my go-to for many years and I find it to last a bit longer than some of the others.
It is also the recommended brand by quite a few high end gear manufacturers.
It is very important to use a non-detergent cleaner when washing these types of garments, for reasons mentioned by Mr. French.
Just as important is to use a quality DWR product on the shell material. Without it, the shell material will wet-out, hampering the membranes ability to allow breathability. Kind of like a fresh coat of wax on your car, when it gets wet the water will bead up and roll right off.
Also, the greater the temperature differential between the inside of the garment and the outside of the garment, the more "breathable" it will be, provided it has been cleaned regularly.
The moisture you feel inside the piece is condensation due to a lack of, or impediment in, breathability, unless of course you have a hole somewhere.
 
#19 ·
NRS and Kokatat came back with go ahead with a DWR restoration. I ordered a set of tech wash and DWR spray. Should be here this weekend. I'll keep updating on the results.

So with the tech was I just literally throw it in the washer on its own and let it go? Set to low water and cold/cold I would assume?
 
#20 ·
Washing

When I wash a dry suit, I use a front-loader, cold water for wash and rinse, and a "delicates" or "hand wash" cycle with no spin. I check the pocket, close the zipper, wash it once, open it and flip the suit inside out, close the zip, and wash it again. If the suit is really nasty, you might have to repeat a few times. I'm not sure the one-sided washing is totally necessary, but I figure anything that saves the zipper strain is good. Top-loaders do abrade things a little more, so use a front loader if you can. If you don't use fancy outdoor-gear soap, choose something without fragrance or fabric softeners in it, because any kind of buildup on the fabric will mess with the breathability of the Goretex.
 
#25 ·
What about the heat activation for DWR refresher products? I know they say to put your dry wear in the dryer on low heat to activate the water repellant.... But I have always been paranoid that the Aquaseal holding the gaskets on might get soft in the heat...anyone had problems with this?
 
#26 ·
I used the iron method. The dwr effectiveness was spotty. The areas that got hot were beading but I was very concerned about melting the Goretex. Next time around I will have a better feel. For my ski gear the dryer works great but I dont trust my gaskets, glue, and zipper leather to the whimsy of my dryer.
 
#27 ·
So having washed and DWRed stuff for years from drytops to ski gear here's some tips. Wash with only NON-detergent cleaners such as scent-free hunters wash (super cheap)or Nikwax type non-detergent cleaners ie basewash...hand wash if the item is really dirty and scrub gross filth off, rinse well. Spray or rinse the item with revivex/TXdirect DWR product and then dry with heat (low heat but you do need heat) either in a dryer or with a hairdryer/heater. You don't have to worry about gore tex melting or getting ruined as long as you use low heat and dry in a tumbling dryer. However, if this is a drytop your gaskets will melt or be severely compromised by drying with heat in any dryer, hence the hairdryer. All you are doing when you use DWR is reviving the face fabric so the garment can breathe better...the water you are getting is not the Gore tex failing but your sweat not escaping the "wetted out" face fabric and probably the dirt clogged goretex membrane as well. So you wash and DWR to keep the garment breathing well. Never use detergent it clogs up the membrane and your item will not breathe well if at all. After every use turn your dryop inside out to dry and prevent mildew/mold. Good luck... Also for those of you who are nervous about washing down...same thing non-detergent soap...dry item fully in a front loading dryer. You don't need tennis balls or any silly crap like that (It does no good at all to throw a ball in with an already tumbling sleeping bag/jacket). Just dry the item in a large dryer until all the clumps are gone occasionally breaking them up with your hands if necessary (I almost never have to do this but occasionally a clump will resist drying as fast as the rest of the garment).
 
#29 ·
Drytop/suit makes no difference, if there are rubber gaskets they can melt or become so brittle and inflexible in the dryer (or with any heat source...sun/hairdryer/etc) they will simply start to crack when you put them on. On a drysuit there is the other issue of the way seams are often welded especially around the zip. This is why I always finish drying my drysuit and drytops with a hairdryer/heatgun after they have hung to dry out the majority of the water from the wash. It only takes a few minutes to touch up the fabric with the hairdryer to heat up the dwr enough so it will breathe well and repel water most effectively.
 
#31 ·
Hi All,

I received my tech wash in the mail today. I cleaned the dry top as instructions noted. As I was had washing the garment I still notice a very defined dark spots. The main ones being that back panel and the drip looking spot on the front neck gasket. I also washed a gortex parka and no where else on the parka or most panels of the dry top looks like that. I have never seen gortex look like this before. Any thoughts?
 

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