hyside IK bottom vs. lynx - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 07-17-2009   #1
 
Jackson, Wyoming
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hyside IK bottom vs. lynx

First post. I've read (at boatpeople) that the smooth bottom of the Aire lynx (and outfitter) make them less likely to get caught by eddies than the "grooved" bottom of the Hysides Padillac and Rio Bravo. I'm looking for a 2nd opinion about this and also a sense of how important that might be to a beginner in class II and III and growing into IV hopefully. (If it matters, I am thinking about both solo and tandem - my GF wants stable for the tandem. If it matters, the home, desired water is Snake River Canyon south of Jackson, WY and maybe the Hoback -- river experience to date is mostly the Snake in Jackson Hole -- not the big whitewater section -- in 14' touring kayaks and in TomCat tandem. Just did Yampa guided trip in tandem Hyside -- blast!!
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

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Old 07-17-2009   #2
 
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Seattle, Washington
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I haven't paddled an Outfitter from AIRE, but I have paddled the Hyside boats, some wing IKs, Stilettos, the NRS boats, SOTAR IKs and most of the other boats AIRE makes.

I'd argue neither of those boats are truly a flat hulled boat however.

Starting with the Hyside, you've got the least flat of all the boats. You've got a combination of factors at play here -- the Hyside has boat-legnth grooves where the floor meets the tube. You've also got I-beam shapes which is what Lee is talking about.

The AIRE boats generally don't have the i-beam floor ridges in play. They still have I-bean floors, of course, but they are inside the bladdder and so you only have the two ridges where the tubes tie in to the floor.

SOTAR IKs, stilettos, and thrillseekers are the only IK's I'm aware of that have truly flat hulls. These boats are built with floors that resemble a wraped bucket floor in an old raft. So, the floor is stretched tight between the tubes, but attaches flat to the tubes (unlike the AIRE's groove between tube and floor on the hull of the boat)

Personally, I very much prefer these flat bottomed boats. I don't know how much a novice would notice it, but the flat hulled boats are faster and more responsive. They turn faster, so on tight creeky moves, you can really work the boat around with a single stroke. The flat hulled boats won't track as well, so if you're doing lake paddling or flat water paddling, that might be a factor. The last thing I really like about the flat hulled IKs is that they carve better. This is critical when catching tight eddies, initiation hard ferries out of eddies, or landing vertical drops where you need to land on edge carving to make the next move.

The flat hulled boats also surf better in my opinion.
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Old 07-17-2009   #3
 
Jackson, Wyoming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slickhorn View Post
Starting with the Hyside, you've got the least flat of all the boats. You've got a combination of factors at play here -- the Hyside has boat-legnth grooves where the floor meets the tube. You've also got I-beam shapes which is what Lee is talking about.

The AIRE boats generally don't have the i-beam floor ridges in play.

Personally, I very much prefer these flat bottomed boats. I don't know how much a novice would notice it, but the flat hulled boats are faster and more responsive.
Thanks for the explanation.
So, if a novice might not notice the diff between a truly flat hull and the aire/hyside type bottom, a novice might notice, even less, the diff between aire bottom and hyside bottom? In any event, it sounds like the bottom diff between hyside and aire might not be the key deciding factor.

For the moment, I'm leaning toward Hyside Rio Bravo or Aire Outfitter in a tandem for major stability (assuming the Hyside Padillac is overkill) -- the diff between bottoms might have tipped the scale, but now, I'm not so sure. Leaning toward the Lynx for a solo boat -- still stable but maybe less tank-like. Seem reasonable?
Thanks, again.
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Old 07-17-2009   #4
 
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I think it really just depends on what you are looking for. I have friends who have paddled some decently hard stuff like Burnt Ranch Gorge on the Trinity in Hyside Padillacs.

Anything short of an AIRE Force will be a very stable boat from the standpoint of a kayaker ... from the standpoint of a rafter they are all tippy as heck.

I think an outfitter or paddilac would be a fine first boat. I would encourage you to demo boats before you buy to get a sense of how the paddle. And keep in mind that if you decide you like boating and want to progress, a padillac or outfitter is only going to take you so far. Not because the boat has limitations, but because you'll want more out of a boat.

The Lynx is probably the best compromise for a boat that is forgiving to a novice, but has the performance to be taken through anything you'll ever want to run. The Lynx will also hold its value much better than the other two boats.

good luck, and have fun!
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Old 07-18-2009   #5
 
Denver, Colorado
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The Lynx is more kayak like /higher performance than the Hyside,but still plenty stable and lots of gear capacity.The Hyside is more forgiving and slightly more durable[hypalon vs. PVC urethaned},rolls up more compact.The Hyside is more raft like ,even though it is shorter it is wider with bigger tube diameter.You can paddle a 2 person Aire Lynx solo but kind of defeats the not wanting a tank idea,but is more stable and you can bridge over big ledge holes,less manouvreable though.Aires get punctured sometimes but are easy to fix and have the best warranty of any product i can think of.The Tomcats are basically the same design as the Lynx but made in China with less years on the warranty,I think.Basically,the smaller boats are more exciting /less forgiving,with width[ratio] and tube diameter maybe a little more significant than length.I hav'nt demo'd the Outfitter or Rio Bravo,was talking about the Padillac.Compare specs on the manufacturer websites or in Paddler's or Canoe and Kayak's yearly gear issues.I like PVC/U better than Hypalon,less grabby and more rigid.


I am not sure about your issues with hulls and eddylines,truthfully don't think it will matter much once you have more experience.



Slickhorn,

How do the Thrillseekers and Stilettos compare to the Force for play...creeking.I guess you can customize your own specs on the Thrillseeker= pretty cool.Aren't the Sotars kind of big and expensive?
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Old 07-19-2009   #6
 
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I use my Lynx with the wife and kid. Impressive boat. Well built, stable, handles tough water easily.

The service from Inflatable Kayak Specialists - The Boat People is great. They have good advice and take care of you.
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Old 07-19-2009   #7
 
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Some of the IK's with larger diameter tubes are almost canoe like, where the paddler feel as if he/she is sitting deeper in the kayak. While this may assist with overall stability, I've seen several smaller sized paddlers struggle with this, as they feel they can't exact reach far enough over the sides to effectively paddle and control the kayak, whereas they did much better in the Lynx/Tomcat style/size kayaks.

My 9 year old prefers to use the Force over the Lynx as he feels he has better control, due in part to the smaller tubes and also the kayak being shorter and more narrow overall.
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Old 07-20-2009   #8
 
Jackson, Wyoming
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Thanks for the perspectives. Yesterday, we (GF and I) did a quick guided duckie trip through the whitewater section of the Snake River Canyon south of Jackson on a tandem Hysides -- pool and drop, some Class III I think, (probably some IV at high flow). I'm very impressed with the stability of those boats! Not that I've run that kind of water in anything else to compare! (except on other folks' rafts a number of yerars ago). I guess I'm just extrapolating from the general feel of my plastic Manitou 14 and the tandem TomCat we picked up used at the end of last season. If I get another inflatable tandem to use with the GF in that kind of water, I expect I'll go with that boat (Hyside) or very similar -- my GF is not sure she wants to go down this path; stability is her priority. If I get a solo boat, I'd probably do a Lynx I or similar (that's my current thinking anyway). I am curious to see how the tandem TomCat might handle the same stretch (maybe we don't need a Hyside) -- but my GF might not want to go there! The guided trip was great for getting a feel for the features at this flow and how to avoid the nastier ones!
Thanks again for your suggestions.
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Old 08-10-2009   #9
 
Jackson, Wyoming
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Just following-up. I did get a Lynx I, and I love it. I have had it out a few times now, twice in approx. class III water. It turns on a dime and seems to be stable enough for me (no flipping) -- yes. it seems to be a great compromise between performance and stability. I did feel like I might be going over a couple of times but I think my instincts are getting to where I can save it -- I do have thigh braces in it. I also had it out in in a mix of flat to class II and I had to work a bit to keep up with my GF in her plastic rec/touring Necky Maintou 14 and my 2 friends sharing a tandem Tomcat IK -- not surprising -- the Lynx is a whitwater boat not a tracking boat and with only me paddling -- definitely not a complaint, just a noticing -- I didn't buy it to tour. So, I'll have to spend some time now developing some whitewater skills (maybe a Force XL will be somewhere in the future if I get more into fun play than just fun following-the-tongues).
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