Groover regulations - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 12-14-2009   #1
 
Ridgway, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2009
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Groover regulations

I am not sure how this got posted in the trip planner forum, sorry! Would someone with the power mind moving it to gear talk? Thanks.

I am planning on some trips next summer where I might be the only raft, so it appears that I am going to have to equip my boat with a proper groover instead of mooching. I have searched and read the past groover threads, and it seems that there is some inconsistency in what is or isn't passable for a groover on various river sections.

It sounds like the Eco-safe is pretty universally acceptable, but it is a bit on the pricey side for occasional use. On the other hand, the old rocket box and WAGG bag set up is not acceptable on rivers that require a "washable and reusable" system.

The ones that I am not sure about are essentially the home-made washable reusable type, either adding an RV cleanout to a rocket box lid, or to a gamma lid for a 5 gallon bucket. This seems like a lower cost alternative to the Eco-safe, that would still pass muster at the put in?

These seem ideal because they would allow for the use of a WAGG bag on short trips that allow them in order to avoid the trip to the dump station, while still OK for trips on Ruby/Horsethief, Desolation, and Westwater. Does anyone have any experience with either of these solutions in terms of getting the go ahead from NPS,BLM,etc. at the put in?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and experiences

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Old 12-14-2009   #2
 
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Glenwood Springs, Colorado
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Moved, as requested.
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Old 12-14-2009   #3
 
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It depends on the river, the regs vary. I believe the only guaranteed-anywhere system is the rocket box system, either with or without ecosafe. I use the gamma seal lid, and I'm pretty sure it's NOT universally accepted, especially areas with Parks regs.
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Old 12-14-2009   #4
 
aurora, Colorado
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Vote for eco-safe. While yes, a bit pricey, it's a one-time cost. Forever. You don't need to buy anything else but bleach and TP. RV connections allow cleanout easy. And if you look, RV dump stations can be found for free or for way cheap. It's universially acceptable. Heck, you can even use it camping for comfy grooving instead of squatting over a hole in the woods. And my experience is that if you don't pee in the pot, the smell is not really that bad.
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Old 12-14-2009   #5
 
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North Denver, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highcountry View Post
I am not sure how this got posted in the trip planner forum, sorry! Would someone with the power mind moving it to gear talk? Thanks.

I am planning on some trips next summer where I might be the only raft, so it appears that I am going to have to equip my boat with a proper groover instead of mooching. I have searched and read the past groover threads, and it seems that there is some inconsistency in what is or isn't passable for a groover on various river sections.

It sounds like the Eco-safe is pretty universally acceptable, but it is a bit on the pricey side for occasional use. On the other hand, the old rocket box and WAGG bag set up is not acceptable on rivers that require a "washable and reusable" system.

The ones that I am not sure about are essentially the home-made washable reusable type, either adding an RV cleanout to a rocket box lid, or to a gamma lid for a 5 gallon bucket. This seems like a lower cost alternative to the Eco-safe, that would still pass muster at the put in?

These seem ideal because they would allow for the use of a WAGG bag on short trips that allow them in order to avoid the trip to the dump station, while still OK for trips on Ruby/Horsethief, Desolation, and Westwater. Does anyone have any experience with either of these solutions in terms of getting the go ahead from NPS,BLM,etc. at the put in?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and experiences
I did a one boat trip and tried to use a five gallon bucket with a gamma lid at Westwater this spring and was told no by the rangers. I even sealed the lid on with caulking making it leak proof. We had some wag bags and were allowed to launch.
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Old 12-14-2009   #6
 
Rainy Northwest, Washington
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The managers are stupid with respect to WAGG bags. They are so much less manky than rocket boxes, eco safe, or any other system that has you sitting on 5-day old fermented crap. I don't mind, but I would bet that compliance is better with WAGG bags than with other systems. By compliance, I mean people not sneaking off behind a bush.
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Old 12-14-2009   #7
 
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Golden, CO
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I don't get the Wag Bag thing. Whaddaya just squat down and poop into a bag? How is that possibly better than the Ecosafe system or just going directly into a rocket box? What do you do with the used Wag Bags when your done? Stick them in the cooler?

I would just go with the Ecosafe. It gives you a nice comfortable place to sit and the thing is super easy to clean out. I use it all the time for remote car camping too.
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Old 12-15-2009   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
I don't get the Wag Bag thing. Whaddaya just squat down and poop into a bag? How is that possibly better than the Ecosafe system or just going directly into a rocket box? What do you do with the used Wag Bags when your done? Stick them in the cooler?
i have a clean rocket box (never had direct poop to box contact) that i open up and place the wag bag inside. use a little bit of duct tape to secure the bag around the rim, place the seat on top, and go to town. then when done with the bag, take the tape off the rocket box and use it to securely seal the bag. leave the used bag in the bottom of the rocket box, and just place a new one in on top of it at your next camp spot.

this way you are never exposed to more than day old poop. the poop in the bag still smells a bit, but nowhere near as bad as an ecosafe.
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Old 12-15-2009   #9
EZ
 
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WAG Bags

A main reason that some places don't allow WAG Bags is that if the bags are stored in an unsecured, or poorly secured, trash container (which is relatively common after everybody is wasted and passed out) animals will get a hold of them and tear them open and spread poo all over the place. They'll do the same in a dumpster at the takeout. Anybody that has seen a dog get into a dirty diaper bin has seen this mess.
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Old 12-15-2009   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ View Post
A main reason that some places don't allow WAG Bags is that if the bags are stored in an unsecured, or poorly secured, trash container (which is relatively common after everybody is wasted and passed out) animals will get a hold of them and tear them open and spread poo all over the place. They'll do the same in a dumpster at the takeout. Anybody that has seen a dog get into a dirty diaper bin has seen this mess.

The argument could be brought up against ECO systems as well. You just have the lid on top... the smell still gets out to attract the animals.
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