glass or carbon werner for river running? - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 03-24-2014   #1
 
Lakewood, Colorado
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glass or carbon werner for river running?

What do you prefer and why? I know fiberglass wears down much faster too.

I need a new paddle and can get a lightly used bent shaft carbon double diamond for about the same price as a brand new fiberglass straight shaft powerhouse. I plan on doing 80% or more river running / creeking and know the DD isn't exactly a river running design but it seems closer to that shape than being a full on playboat paddle like the player or sidekick. Both are same offset and length.

I've heard people say they love the extra flex of fiberglass, and others say they love the stiffness of carbon.

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Old 03-24-2014   #2
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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It's all good powerhouse is always nice for river running.. And if its river running you shouldn't have to worry about the blade wearing down. That's creeking that puts the hurting On your blades..
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Old 03-24-2014   #3
 
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Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Since I'm a left control and it seems almost no one else is on the river these days, I keep a quiver in my garage or truck. I.e. I never throw anything away. That includes my old Mitchell and Silver Creek wood ones. More recently I've Been mainly paddling with a Mitchell carbon and have some experience with a fiberglass Werner.

I recently got a new Sho-gun and have become a big fan of the core blades. I like the thicker leading, and trailing, edges for Duffeks. The floatation of the blade is very nice for braces and (maybe it's in my head?) rolling.

Note, I'm an old slalom racer and these notes refer to a straight shaft paddle and usually a slightly longer one - ~197-198.
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Old 03-24-2014   #4
 
Denver, Colorado
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Got a 197 cm shogun. Love the carbon blades.

Main things I like are that 1) blades don't wear down over time, 2) stiffness and full blades = solid power every stoke.

I personally don't like paddles that flex. I feel like you loose some of your power to flex instead of transmitting that force into stroke power with flexing blades.
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Old 03-24-2014   #5
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Boulder, Colorado
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Interesting, I just had a very similar discussion yesterday. You can tell how exciting my life is. Given the deal you're getting, it seems like you ought to go for the DD. I wouldn't worry too much about the blade shape. It will have slightly different characteristics when pulling through your stroke than the "river runner" shape, but many people still prefer the "play" shape, esp. for creeking since it tends to transfer a lot of power at the initiation.

Unless you're seriously competing, I'm still unconvinced that the stiff blades are that important for performance. I also think there are easy ways to make up for a little flex such as a larger blade surface area and longer lever arm. Anyway, my favorite paddle to date was a wood paddle and it was heavy and flexed a lot.

My biggest concern about the carbon blades has been whether it opens you up to more joint injuries since it absorbs less energy on impact. I can't find any reasonable way to quantify that risk however. Anyone else have opinions?

For what it's worth, I've decided to try out a carbon blade, primarily for the abrasion characteristics but the lighter weight is also a bonus.
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Old 03-24-2014   #6
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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The carbon blades do absorb more impact on the paddle. Both are great paddles just depends what you like. You can't beat a full size blade though. Honestly id pass up the bent shaft unless you got a limp wrist and need the extra comfort.. The standard fiberglass blades can take a serious beating most of the time the shaft will break first and you can get a new blade for 125 if you break on off highly doubtful.. That's why AT has a fiberglass line is they kick ass.. The main purpose for a blade
With a foam core is to aid in the paddling it helps float the blade making easier to get paddle
Up for rolls and slightly smoother feathering. And your paddle will float during swims.. I'd try and talk the guy Down and see if you can be get both cause you are gonna need a back up..

Comes down to midsize playboating blade versus a full size river running blade..better blunt or better boof?
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Old 03-24-2014   #7
 
Sultan, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattoak View Post
What do you prefer and why? I know fiberglass wears down much faster too.

I need a new paddle and can get a lightly used bent shaft carbon double diamond for about the same price as a brand new fiberglass straight shaft powerhouse. I plan on doing 80% or more river running / creeking and know the DD isn't exactly a river running design but it seems closer to that shape than being a full on playboat paddle like the player or sidekick. Both are same offset and length.

I've heard people say they love the extra flex of fiberglass, and others say they love the stiffness of carbon.

To help with your decision know that the only difference you will see with the carbon is a weight savings. Carbon will be equal in strength, impact resistance and wear.

The shape of the Sherpa/Stikine or Powerhouse/Sho-Gun is optimal for creek boating and river running. Thatís not to say that you canít go play boating with either of these, they just wonít perform like the Double Diamond would in that discipline. All the shafts are tested for strength, weight and flex. So you should feel a very comfortable, consistent feel from both while maintaining confidence from their strength.
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Old 03-24-2014   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WernerPaddles View Post
To help with your decision know that the only difference you will see with the carbon is a weight savings. Carbon will be equal in strength, impact resistance and wear.

The shape of the Sherpa/Stikine or Powerhouse/Sho-Gun is optimal for creek boating and river running. Thatís not to say that you canít go play boating with either of these, they just wonít perform like the Double Diamond would in that discipline. All the shafts are tested for strength, weight and flex. So you should feel a very comfortable, consistent feel from both while maintaining confidence from their strength.
Really? I'm reluctant to argue with someone named WernerPaddles from Sultan, WA, but this is completely counter to just about everybody's real world experience and what most paddle makers advertise - perhaps even counter to things I've read from Werner, at least in the past.

If you take a sanding belt to a carbon blade and fiber blade there is absolutely no difference in wear properties? There is no difference in flex between the werner carbon and fiberglass blades? The carbon blades are able to be crafted to the exact material properties for impact and wear of a fiberglass blade? This really surprises me.
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Old 03-24-2014   #9
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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Well if it was designed at the same weight I could see the carbon being a clear winner but the goal is weight reduction because the paddles are already bomber makes sense to me.. Weight reduction while keeping the same integrity.
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Old 03-24-2014   #10
 
Lakewood, Colorado
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Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
Well if it was designed at the same weight I could see the carbon being a clear winner but the goal is weight reduction because the paddles are already bomber makes sense to me.. Weight reduction while keeping the same integrity.
Thats a good point. Carbon fiber IS stiffer and stronger so it takes less of it to have the same strength / stiffness. Fiberglass blades may have an extra layer or two of fabric compared to carbon blades, so I could see how it is possible for them to wear at the same rate. Would be a cool test. I'm sure werner has data about this....?
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