14' or 16' Cataraft? - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-07-2010   #1
 
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 227
14' or 16' Cataraft?

So I think I have decided to keep my 15' raft as a paddle raft, and not make it into a gear hauler for overnight trips. And am now wanting to get a cat. I found a decent deal on cat tubes, and was wondering which tube size would be best for me. I would like to have one set of tubes that can do it all.

I would like to be able to cat the Ark, from Numbers to the Gorge, on day trips, and then be able to carry enough gear to support 6 people on a 4 night trip (there will be only one person on the cat, 5 others on the paddle raft). So is it possible to get that kind of gear on a 14' (probably not), or have the 16' be fun and maneuverable on smaller water like the Ark at 1000. I am looking at the Aire Performance tubes right now if that helps, so 24" diameter for the 16' and 22" for the 14'.

Then someday I would like to row the GC, and I assume that even a 16' would be too small for this. Would an 18' cat be big enough to fully support 6 people?

Also, I would like to get a frame to span the two options also. Would it be best to get a smaller frame, and then virtual bays to add onto when I need the capacity? What is the problem with a large frame for day trips? Heaviness? Too stiff?

Sorry about all the newb questions - BS

BullSCit is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-07-2010   #2
no tengo
 
mania's Avatar
 
Baytopia, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1876
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,846
so just an FYI I would be taking a 12 cat on the grand next month if it would have been ready in time but I'll probably end up taking a 13' raft or 14' cat.

your main problem is offering to support freeloaders be they paddle rafters or kayakers. otherwise you could go light and playful.

so in case you didn't get my opinion go as small as you can. like a sports car vs a u-haul.
mania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2010   #3
 
Jenks, Oklahoma
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,722
I am not that much of a expert on raft loading as only been rafting a few years. But have been retired and done a lot of trips since 2003

I have a 143 Aire Self Bailer and a 18 ft Aire Leopard Cataraft.

I do not think either would fully suport 6 people on a typical 7 or 8 day western river trip like Middle Fork of the Salmon.

Cats even the big ones do not perform well if over loaded.

Took my 18 foot Aire down the GC last october and it did fine. But, we did not overload it. We had several 18 ft self bailer rafts that were the gear haulers. For info we had a 16 ft marvia cat on the trip and he did great.

hope this helps but others need to chime in
okieboater is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-07-2010   #4
 
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 227
That is kind of what I expected to hear, bigger is better for hauling, smaller is better for fun. Can I really believe the load capacity of the Ocelot to be 980 lbs? With an 80# frame, 200# me, 20# oars, that would still be 680# of carrying ability. Right? Or is this hype?

I really want to hear if the 16' would be too much for the Ark and other similar rivers.
BullSCit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2010   #5
 
unemployeed
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 133
Send a message via ICQ to northfwestg
dude, go big

i row a 16 Kodiak cat for safety boating in the northwest, you will be stoked to have a bigger boat for western rivers, as far as the ark, i dunno, i would go big, ask ihwmt, shes the queen of the cat
northfwestg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010   #6
 
raftus's Avatar
 
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,165
Quote:
Originally Posted by okieboater View Post
I have a 143 Aire Self Bailer and a 18 ft Aire Leopard Cataraft.

I do not think either would fully suport 6 people on a typical 7 or 8 day western river trip like Middle Fork of the Salmon.
Just a reference point - I loaded down my 14'3" hyside with me, three passengers, and gear for another 5 people (kayakers) and ran the Middle Fork at mid-high water. It was a blast. We went on the small end of rafting trip gear, but i still had a big cooler and dry box, two rocket boxes, several water jugs, and a mountain of dry bags. The raft did fine from Marsh creek right on down. I actually think the dry bags multiplied during the trip - I was carrying at least 10 Bills Bag's, plus a lot of smaller bags. It was loaded to the gills and at or near max rated capacity. We had to make some sacrifices - like more hard booze - Nalgaritas anyone? - and less beer. But I would do it again in a heartbeat.

Sometimes I forget that when I do a 5 day backpacking trip I carry 55 lbs including my 6 lb back pack and really enjoy it. If you limit the kayakers you are supporting to 75 lbs each, and you have 600 lbs of extra capacity so you can support 8 of them. And they come in hand for loading and unloading your boat
raftus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010   #7
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 274
I have a 16' nrs river cat and find it on the big side for the Ark at 1000cfs. But I also have huge frame - 72" by 120" With a cat you can really change the way it performs with the width and length of the frame. A friend runs a 16' on the ark with a much smaller frame 62" by 88" and has no problems.

16' is a nice compromise. It’s a little small for the Grand but doable, a little big for the Ark at moderate to low water but doable. I have found it works fine on most rivers.


In terms of gear hauling I have found a 16' cat = a 14' raft

With all of that said I am in the market for some 14’ tubes to make my frame a little more versatile.
rsmiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010   #8
 
Park City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 227
Thanks for the info, sounds like the 16's are the way to go. A couple of quick questions though.

Are there any negatives about a larger tube diameter? I can get pretty close to 80% of the load of an Aire Jaguar (16') with a Aire Lion 14 becauase of a 1.5" larger tube diameter. But the waterline is longer for the Lion (according to Aire), will that really negate the advantage of a shorter tube?

Also, have people found Aire's load numbers they claim accurate and still have the cat be somewhat manageable? Jaguar = 1500#, Ocelot = 980#, Lion 14 = 1200#.

Last question regarding frames. If I want x amount of square feet of frame, is it better for controllability both loaded and unloaded for the frame to be longer/thinner or shorter/wider?

Thanks again, you guys are better than KGBKGB.
BullSCit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010   #9
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by BullSCit View Post
Last question regarding frames. If I want x amount of square feet of frame, is it better for controllability both loaded and unloaded for the frame to be longer/thinner or shorter/wider?
I prefer a longer narrower frame personally. I have found the 72" to be a little wider then I like. 66" is about right. Another option is to get the longer frame and make it modular so you can remove a couple bays for trips on smaller rivers, day trips, etc.

Others will have different opinions.
rsmiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2010   #10
 
Bayfield, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1998
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 12
I went from a 14' raft to a 16' Aire jag. On day trips with 2 people and a cooler I could squeeze through some tight spots and shallow water no problem. On overnight trips loaded with gear not so much... Catrafts at least the Aire Jag is not a good gear hauler (IMO). I played hell getting my load balanced, the cat seems to be front heavy or back heavy with the placement of a single dry bag!! and sat so low in the water I had to get used to what I could and could not make it thru with minimum drag. I thought that it was a great day trip boat, tracked like a champion. but when I wanted to bring the steaks and 30 packs of PBR on some multi-day trips, it was not the boat for me....
dhhanson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
cataraft

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
16' Lavro WTD lavro1 Kayaking | Gear Talk 63 06-12-2010 03:24 PM
Minimum trailer footprint for a 16' raft? jmunzke Rafting | Gear Talk 10 10-13-2009 10:13 AM
16' 6'' foot boat in Browns Canyon nicho Whitewater Kayaking 3 06-24-2009 08:28 AM
Frame width for 16' cataraft? h20shed Kayaking | Gear Talk 18 05-26-2009 05:30 PM
14' raft vrs 16' cataraft ? ? rsmiller Rafting | Gear Talk 15 07-09-2006 09:06 AM

» Classified Ads
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.