Ruby/Horsethief - Another plane crash - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 5 Days Ago   #1
 
Bailey, Colorado
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Ruby/Horsethief - Another plane crash

And, another crash in Ruby/Horsethief....

https://www.9news.com/article/travel...2-9e723dd0f36e

"The pilot was flying from Moab, Utah, to Grand Junction, Colorado, when the plane crashed about 11 a.m. Saturday." Right.....

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Old 5 Days Ago   #2
 
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Dollars to donuts he was "water skiing" and messed it up. Perhaps oeforming a bush landing or takeoff on that rock bar and just miscalculated. Looks like a possible ground loop too (where, after initial touchdown in a landing the plane spins hard enough to flip...usually due to lack of compensating for the tail wheel touching down).

Glad he didn't die and just messed up his $300k+ plane. It even looks fixable if they can get it out of there without cutting the wings off or something.

I've been watching a bunch of bush plane videos lately and they are pretty fond of the whole water skimming thing but you have to know what you are doing and the potential for messing up is kinda high. The whole bush plane thing looks like a ton of fun...but they definitely have their levels of risk involved and you gotta go above and beyond to make it safe.

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Old 5 Days Ago   #3
 
thornton, Colorado
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Boys and their toys.

Boys and their toys. You have to be careful.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #4
 
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a ground loop is loss of directional control on landing. It is not due to lack of compensating for setting the tail down. Usually it is cause by a lack of control input to compensate for a crosswind.

Water skiing is a way to extend the landing distance of a short landing zone, it is done prior to the landing zone when there is still enough lift and speed to not sink into the water.


It is likely that this was a gravel bar landing gone wrong, but looks more to me like he got on the brakes too hard and nosed it over. It is most likely repairable.
It is not a $300k airplane, if it is a very nice specimen of super cub it is half that or less. If it is not a nice specimen of an old plane it is probably in the $90k range.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #5
 
thornton, Colorado
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I think it's pretty cool, in my many years in rotor and fixed wing aircraft, I learned about a technique called water skiing and how it's used in aviation on Mountain buzz, a great whitewater forum. Believe it or not, in general aviation circles there is discussions on aircraft much like in the white water craft's from size(small, big, fast, maneuverability,
etc) to equipment(composite material vs aluminum parts, best tires, engine size, new or rebuilt engine, electronics makers or models) what to carry in back country flying or airport's with the best showers, overnight sleeping accommodations. Good weather bad weather, bumpy or smooth air, etc. Boaters and aviators have the same personality's to me and being greatly involved in both, professionally and recreationally. Anyway, in my opinion on the airplane incident, the engine was not running because the propeller tips are in good condition and one propeller is slightly bent forward not backwards, the flaps are in the full extended position for landing which assist in very, very slow touch down speed, he was almost stopped when he flipped over because the top of the rubber that hit the ground in the flip is barely damaged, plus the Cuby is still in great shape which means he was flying very slow on touchdown, they(Cubby) were designed this way. The pilot did an excellent job, he almost had the landing nailed on the gravel bar. Engine out in a Cubby is not usually a big deal if you have a couple feet to land on, it does depend on the situation though.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerhenry View Post
a ground loop is loss of directional control on landing. It is not due to lack of compensating for setting the tail down. Usually it is cause by a lack of control input to compensate for a crosswind.
My bad... I misunderstood what a ground loop was. I guess I fixated on the fact that it is mostly a problem with taildraggers.

Quote:
Water skiing is a way to extend the landing distance of a short landing zone, it is done prior to the landing zone when there is still enough lift and speed to not sink into the water.
I'm sure that they started out that way and is still sometimes used as such...but there are tons of videos of guys doing it just for fun and not while landing. From the sounds of it... its kinda easy to know when to pull up but a momentary delay in decision making could make for a bad day.

Quote:
It is likely that this was a gravel bar landing gone wrong, but looks more to me like he got on the brakes too hard and nosed it over. It is most likely repairable.
Seems likely...especially since it is at the edge of the water. I guess it could be a last minute bail on a takeoff where he couldn't slowed down in time and slammed on the brakes too.

Quote:

It is not a $300k airplane, if it is a very nice specimen of super cub it is half that or less. If it is not a nice specimen of an old plane it is probably in the $90k range.
You should look at current pricing again...not many Carbon Cub Super Cubs (look at the logo on the tail) on the used market with the mods that plane has for less then $170k and plenty of the high performance versions for well over $300k.

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Old 4 Days Ago   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Mayhem View Post
My bad... I misunderstood what a ground loop was. I guess I fixated on the fact that it is mostly a problem with taildraggers.



I'm sure that they started out that way and is still sometimes used as such...but there are tons of videos of guys doing it just for fun and not while landing. From the sounds of it... its kinda easy to know when to pull up but a momentary delay in decision making could make for a bad day.



Seems likely...especially since it is at the edge of the water. I guess it could be a last minute bail on a takeoff where he couldn't slowed down in time and slammed on the brakes too.



You should look at current pricing again...not many Carbon Cub Super Cubs (look at the logo on the tail) on the used market with the mods that plane has for less then $170k and plenty of the high performance versions for well over $300k.

Inventory - CubCrafters

Its not a carbon cub. Its a Piper L-21. Sure, a brand new carbon cub costs $250k to $300k depending on setup, but that is for a brand new plane. This plane is an older on with some mods. If it was a total restoration with all the mods and no hours since the mods it might go $150k. But, a good cub with decent parts is going to be in the $90k to $120k range most likely.

Ground loops are a thing mostly common in tailwheel airplanes, it is much harder to keep a tailwheel airplane straight because the center of gravity is behind the main gear, if it gets a little bit off direction, the momentum wants to take it around. But, I'd be shocked if that's what this was. Like someone else said, looks like the prop was not turning because its not bent like it was turning when it hit the ground. An aborted takeoff would have a bent prop.

Water skiing is to help with landing in short places, but i think I would practice it before I tried to use it to land.


I fly a tailwheel, but not a cub.
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Old 4 Days Ago   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spencerhenry View Post
Its not a carbon cub. Its a Piper L-21. Sure, a brand new carbon cub costs $250k to $300k depending on setup, but that is for a brand new plane. This plane is an older on with some mods. If it was a total restoration with all the mods and no hours since the mods it might go $150k. But, a good cub with decent parts is going to be in the $90k to $120k range most likely.
If you say so...but if you zoom in it literally says Carbon Cub SS on the nose cone and there is a Carbon Cub logo on the tail too. Is it common for people to label their non carbon cubs with those logo's? I can't see why that would be the case.

Quote:
Water skiing is to help with landing in short places, but i think I would practice it before I tried to use it to land.


I fly a tailwheel, but not a cub.
My only experience is from watching youtube videos of a bunch of the Youtuber bush pilots like Trent Palmer and Mike Patey and their friends/crew...but it seems very common to do it just because its fun and cool to do while you are out flying. A bunch of those guys got a bunch of flack a few years back for doing it on the river in Deso next to Rock Creek Ranch...and the landing strip has trees and stuff between the river and the landing strip.



I'm sure it is used for landings...but its also just something that those guys do for fun. Its not my place to say whether that is a good or bad thing as long as there are no river runners on the river where they are doing it... but its certainly used for more then just landing.

This video shows both kinds of use...but a lot of gratuitous long distance skimming going on...
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Old 4 Days Ago   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymo View Post
I think it's pretty cool, in my many years in rotor and fixed wing aircraft, I learned about a technique called water skiing and how it's used in aviation on Mountain buzz, a great whitewater forum. Believe it or not, in general aviation circles there is discussions on aircraft much like in the white water craft's from size(small, big, fast, maneuverability,
etc) to equipment(composite material vs aluminum parts, best tires, engine size, new or rebuilt engine, electronics makers or models) what to carry in back country flying or airport's with the best showers, overnight sleeping accommodations. Good weather bad weather, bumpy or smooth air, etc. Boaters and aviators have the same personality's to me and being greatly involved in both, professionally and recreationally. Anyway, in my opinion on the airplane incident, the engine was not running because the propeller tips are in good condition and one propeller is slightly bent forward not backwards, the flaps are in the full extended position for landing which assist in very, very slow touch down speed, he was almost stopped when he flipped over because the top of the rubber that hit the ground in the flip is barely damaged, plus the Cuby is still in great shape which means he was flying very slow on touchdown, they(Cubby) were designed this way. The pilot did an excellent job, he almost had the landing nailed on the gravel bar. Engine out in a Cubby is not usually a big deal if you have a couple feet to land on, it does depend on the situation though.
Raymo, your assessment is spot on. (I use to be an A&P Mechanic)
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Old 3 Days Ago   #10
 
thornton, Colorado
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Electric-Mayhem, someone needs to acquire a pilot certificate, you would really enjoy it. Flying over all the river corridors that you float gives a whole new perspective of the river's you float, plus you can visit and camp at some assume secluded spots. Thanks for posting those videos I really enjoyed them, along with the great river scenery........
"Caverdan", without the great work and expertise the A/P's provide, aviation would not exist as we know it today. I had to give up my wings to a bum heart, couldn't pass my first class medical certification, 2nd worse day of my life, my first worst day of my life is when my seventh wife told me she would never divorce me and was going to be with me for a very, very, very long time. 33 years, but whose counting.
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