How will the Government's impasse affect launches on the GC? - Mountain Buzz
 

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Old 09-29-2013   #1
 
Eugene, Oregon
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How will the Government's impasse affect launches on the GC?

Does anybody know how the impasse in Congress could affect launches for the Grand Canyon (Lees Ferry to Diamond)? We've got a launch date of October 9th.

Gov't shutdown could cost AZ millions as national parks close

Thanks in advance for any insight,
Nate
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Old 09-29-2013   #2
no tengo
 
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Baytopia, Colorado
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It is very clear you will not be able to launch if the shutdown happens and lasts through Oct 9. some people on here keep saying 'poach that shit' or something to that effect. they are idiots. the gates will be locked and patrolled (enforcement will not shutdown). I hope you get to go, but looking at some of the crybabies in congress throwing their temper tantrums and it isn't too promising.
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Old 09-29-2013   #3
 
cedar city, Utah
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If the government shutdowns and avoids a classic midnight deal....

You will lose your launch date and they will likely LEs stationed at the entrances to Lees Ferry to prevent folks from entering. They will still have essential personnel at the NPS but will be closed to visitation.

I would imagine they will award either a new launch date sometime in the next 10 years or extra points for the weighted lottery. Thats the lemonade bit which I can only imagine isn't very appealing right now.

Sucks. But hopefully they rally at the last minute like they always do. Alot of posturing right now.

Best of luck and hope they solve it so you don't have added stress during an already busy portion of a GC trip.

Phillip
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Old 09-29-2013   #4
 
Uzbekibekistanstan, Mississippi
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When are we finally going to label the extortionist Republican Party a terrorist organization?
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Old 09-29-2013   #5
 
Eugene, Oregon
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Hmm...

So, they won't have enough money to have someone there to sign your permit, but they will to have someone there to tell you it's closed...

I'll refrain from a curse-laced rant, which is really difficult for me right now.

-Nate
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Old 09-29-2013   #6
 
cedar city, Utah
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I think it would take a stretch of the imagination to blame the NPS for the Congress's decisions on this one.

They have to protect the park...but if you have any doubts....the entire point of the government closure, for Congress, is to shut it down as much as possible. That means no visitation. Pretty simple idea. If you have ever worked for the government than you will understand how limited "essential personnel" can be by definition.

If you don't like it....call you congressman...make sure they know this affects real people.

I don't love the presence of LEs but having them in this case makes sense. And from what I understand, the choices aren't for the NPS to make.

And don't forget.....the federal employees are people who could be losing job and pay here shortly. They are average people for the most sake.

IMHO

Phillip
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Old 09-29-2013   #7
 
Eugene, Oregon
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Agreed

Oh, I totally agree and place absolutely no blame on the NPS, who I'm sure are just as pissed as me and anyone else who's trip is at risk.

All my anger will be rightfully directed at the incompetent fools in Congress, who only care about their own interests and not those of the people they supposedly represent.

-Nate

Quote:
Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
I think it would take a stretch of the imagination to blame the NPS for the Congress's decisions on this one.

They have to protect the park...but if you have any doubts....the entire point of the government closure, for Congress, is to shut it down as much as possible. That means no visitation. Pretty simple idea. If you have ever worked for the government than you will understand how limited "essential personnel" can be by definition.

If you don't like it....call you congressman...make sure they know this affects real people.

I don't love the presence of LEs but having them in this case makes sense. And from what I understand, the choices aren't for the NPS to make.

And don't forget.....the federal employees are people who could be losing job and pay here shortly. They are average people for the most sake.

IMHO

Phillip
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Old 09-29-2013   #8
 
Walterville, Oregon
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Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
And don't forget.....the federal employees are people who could be losing job and pay here shortly.
When the feds shut down in mid 1990s, the employees had a nice 3 week break, then received pay for the time they were not working.
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Old 09-30-2013   #9
 
Salt Lake City, Utah
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Uhm... I was one of those government employees over Christmas in 1995, which is when Newt and Company shut "the government" down. Since my boss and his boss and the Human Resources Officer were all on leave for Christmas, I "enjoyed" doing three other jobs, plus my own. Yes, furloughed employees ("non-essential") eventually were paid (although most I knew were simply taking leave they had already earned, so there was no freebie involved). But think for a moment about the impact of not receiving a paycheck over Christmas, when most people - even government employees - have already spent theirs, maybe several times over (in the best American tradition).
As for NPS, and and law enforcement over facilitation/interpretation: some might maintain we are now about to receive the Kafka-esque extension of "fee access." Whatever happened to "Parks are for people"?. Some legal beagle with time on her/his hands might bring an action to argue that since you've already paid $100 in fees for each participant, NPS has a duty to inspect/interpret and put your trip on the water. When there are "special access fees" involved there has to be a quid prop quo.
But that's pretty esoteric, and not likely to garner much public support when set against the big picture of a furlough.
Whatever happened to civics class? Am I the only one who remembers the lecture "you don't get to choose which laws to follow, either follow the law or suffer the consequences." Apparently Cruz and Lee and Paul missed that class... maybe they were out doing something that had to do with tea, but nowhere close to a harbor...
If you don't like what "the government" is doing, and you're not involved with fixing it, stop whining. ACA is flawed and misunderstood, but it's a start on joining the rest of the developed world in offering health care to all. If you don't think that's worthwhile, say why. Otherwise offer solutions, not roadblocks or "fiscal cliffs."
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Old 09-30-2013   #10
Old Guy in a PFD
 
Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
When are we finally going to label the extortionist Republican Party a terrorist organization?
Cmon now, this was a good discussion loaded with good information till you went off and did your soap box rant.

The idiots in Congress are fighting the idiots in the administration and generally trying to decide who has the biggest..............ego.

Keep in mind as you rant at the Publicans that the Dummycrats (Obama to be specific), have said they WILL NOT NEGOTIATE OVER THE BUDGET; PASS IT OR TAKE A HIKE.

Imagine if Bush or Reagan had said that. The dummycrats would have busted a collective blood vessel.

And imagine if Bush or Reagan announced, while the government was just hours away from being shut down, that they had been negotiating with Russia or Al Qaeda (whoever the bad guys were at the moment) to (put some important but long term issue in here). The dummycrats would be screaming about the publicans fiddling while Washington burned.

You want to rant about this, fine, I'd suggest you take it to the Eddy and start a thread.

Now, as to the OP question
There's nothing about a shut down as of this posting on the NPS site;
Grand Canyon National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

I did find this;

FYI, if the Government shutdown does occur, Glen Canyon National Recreation Area will be closed. If an agreement on the budget has not been reached by midnight, 4/08/11, the park will be closed and no one can enter. I'm not sure if the park would close at midnight on Friday or wait until Monday morning. We will post an update on our river report at leesferry.com as soon as we know.

I'm sure that you all can imagine how I feel about this BS. This is the peak fishing season at Lees Ferry and we currently have people traveling and scheduled to travel from all over the country to come fish Lees Ferry. The last time there was a Gov shutdown I had a customer travel all the way from Japan to fish the Ferry for 4 days and we could not enter the Park.

In addition to fishing, all Grand Canyon raft trips, both commercial and private will not be able to launch. Commercial rafting season just began this last week and there are going to be a bunch of mad people!

Remember all this at election time.

Arizona Fly Fishing Forums - Government Shutdown could Close Lees Ferry
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