Beware of Salmon River Rules and draconian enforcement - Page 5 - Mountain Buzz
 

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Old 01-31-2019   #41
 
Colorado, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 122
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Originally Posted by fcaraska View Post
Youíre a moron and have no idea what my intentions were. I didnít know someone else had grabbed a permit for the same week. We all had an intention of rafting the Salmon. Do you sit around and say,Ē hey if a permit for July 09th comes up randomly with 21 days before launch, anyone want to go? Please read and understand the technicality that the adults are discussing. I havenít been on the buzz in a while but it seems to have turned into the island of trolls. This is a technicality that shouldnít exist and grown ups are discussing it. If you do t have anything productive to say go back to your video game.
Speaking of trolls, you should look in the mirror you fucking douche bag.

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Old 01-31-2019   #42
 
boizee, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1984
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 203
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Originally Posted by fcaraska View Post
Be aware that you can be restricted from participation in the Four Rivers Lottery if you are unaware of how the rules are applied. If you pick up a cancellation permit with 22 days before launch day and cancel
It with 20 days left before launch, you will be banned from future lotteries. If you are holding a permit, for even the slightest amount of time, and the clock passes the 21 day window, you are in violation. Last year I got a cancellation permit with only 22 days before launch. My sister picked up one the very next day and her date was a better one. I immediately cancelled the permit. I never considered that holding a cancellation permit for less than 48 hours would prevent me from entering the lottery for three years. I spoke with the project manager, Nick, and he agreed that this was ridiculous. However, the Ranger, Ken, will not succumb to cimmon sense. I am not done fighting this. I will move up the chain all the way to the Secretary of the Interior if need be. Iíve been through too much for this land to not be able to enjoy it. Be careful when grabbing cancellations around the 3 week mark. Be safe out there.
The (Acting) Secretary of Interior Bernhart will tell you to call the Secretary of Agriculture since they oversee the USFS.
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Old 02-01-2019   #43
 
Tres Piedras, New Mexico
Paddling Since: 1979
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 76
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Originally Posted by fcaraska View Post
With the new system it just prevents you from entering lottery. I am asking for a rule change that allows you to hold the permit for 72 hours before incurring a penalty. Only the commercial boaters would object.
If the 48 hours wasn't enough, I doubt that 72 would be either. There is always someone who doesn't fully read and understand the rules. In this me society, its often difficult to understand how ones actions effect others. In this case, a permit was used up and no one got to go boating. That's pretty sucky. I don't know if that permit system has ATL's, but if it did and you had an ATL, then the trip still could have gone without you. The rules are in place to prevent the exact thing that occurred, a wasted permit.
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Old 02-01-2019   #44
 
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Kalispell, Montana
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,336
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Originally Posted by newpc View Post
If the 48 hours wasn't enough, I doubt that 72 would be either. There is always someone who doesn't fully read and understand the rules. In this me society, its often difficult to understand how ones actions effect others. In this case, a permit was used up and no one got to go boating. That's pretty sucky. I don't know if that permit system has ATL's, but if it did and you had an ATL, then the trip still could have gone without you. The rules are in place to prevent the exact thing that occurred, a wasted permit.
Well said.


The real waste is on cancelled Middle permits during the high season when NO cancellation permits are available.
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Old 02-01-2019   #45
 
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Crested Butte, Colorado
Paddling Since: 09
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 115
Wah wah wah....cry me a river, I'll go raft that......

I didn't think it was a particularly great story but i'm happy to tell it again if you think it will help. I love the sense of entitlement here. Its so American. I don't care what the rules are I want what I want and I want it now. Even saying you will try to have the rules changed. The 5 and 6 year olds I coach sometimes cry too when they don't win evert time so I understand what you are going through.

Still blaming other people and even your phone has become a scapegoat!

And to everyone who has given this person crap....did you ever stop to think they may have what we call a mental condition....maybe he just can understand the scary world and you should give 'em a break.

peace and love people.......unless I don't get a permit then its all war and crying......me a river so I can boat more
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Old 02-01-2019   #46
 
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Seattle, Washington
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 508
The only way this level of panic makes sense is if you are facing a permanent ban ... does such a penalty exist short of legal prosecution? we're talking about a 1-year ban right?

Since you cant tell that 22 days is greater than 21 days, you want to be able to hold your permit for 3 days without penalty, because the rules make it too hard to get a permit, even though you got 2 permits on short notice and couldn't use 'em both? my head hurts!

I know it sucks though, I've been banned from the rogue lottery several times for short notice permits I claimed but couldnt use. no biggie, it was clear in the rules... just go pre/post season that next year.

lots more boaters than user days, and no magic solution...
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Old 02-04-2019   #47
 
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Bazzaro, Free
Paddling Since: 2020
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Posts: 1,598
Hell ya the buzz is back!

Where do I put in for a permit to float the "River of Tears?" Is it in Idaho? I hear it going to be a big water year! Never disappointing.
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Switching to mgtow saved 100% on thot insurance...
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Old 02-04-2019   #48
 
Colorado, Colorado
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 122
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Originally Posted by dirtbagkayaker View Post
Hell ya the buzz is back!

Where do I put in for a permit to float the "River of Tears?" Is it in Idaho? I hear it going to be a big water year! Never disappointing.

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Old 02-04-2019   #49
Dipshit with the most.
 
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Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,803
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Originally Posted by fcaraska View Post
Not according to the project manager.
I guess I needed to be more specific. You still need to cancel. Pretty sure you get penalized if you don't. But my reading comprehension sucks too so maybe not.
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Old 02-05-2019   #50
 
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C. Springs, Colorado
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,772
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Originally Posted by MT4Runner View Post

The real waste is on cancelled Middle permits during the high season when NO cancellation permits are available.
On the plus side. One less group for the rest of the trips to encounter.
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