Yellowstone Controversy - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 10-13-2008   #1
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Yellowstone Controversy

Hey to all just figured i would post a link to let you know about the most recent kayaker bust in yellowstone national park. It is an issue many of us would like to draw light too. Maybe in the near future some who has a more logical way of approach can help to change the laws. AWA was a major failure in their atempt and didn't help the cause in any way.

Check it out:
EGCREEKIN: Yellowstone National Problem

Comments appreciated.

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Old 10-13-2008   #2
 
Jackson, Wyoming
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Felon boaters association.

Sad to see it has come to this, a $335 charge for NOT going boating, combined with ejection from the park?????? Bummer. Glad I was able to get two undetected runs in there before things got so militant. Even my friends who got caught early on (they know who they are ), only ended up paying around $220 plus being banned from park for a year. $5,000????? Holy shit. Of course, those guys making fun of the rangers in the Montana Surf guidebook didn't help the cause, either. Pissing off the 'pine pigs' and inviting their constant vigilance and wrath is no way to fly under the radar.
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Old 10-13-2008   #3
 
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Inviting abuse. . .

I'll say that I don't mind the Park being a kayak (and cat and raft) free zone. If boating was legal, the rescue costs alone would be pretty steep, not to mention the traffic/parking jams at put-ins, outfitter overcrowding (can you imagine the lust for profits?), etc.

Not being a law-and-order type, I get pissed at the private-propertarian shitheads who try to keep boaters off so many other streams (like the North Platte) with their obnoxious signs, wire fences across channels, and other forms of harrassment.

The Park belongs to all of us, and boaters are free to press a case for legal access. But until the decision goes that way, I respect the present regs. Poach if you wish, but suffer the penalty without whining.
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Old 10-13-2008   #4
 
Wydaho, Idaho
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Sorry to hear they got busted, at least they received minimal consequences. A couple years ago, I was driving in the west entrance, and the gate ranger reminded me I needed 'permits' on my boats if I intended to float. I don't think the ranger knew what kind of use my boats were intended for (I was only driving thorugh the park, not going there to boat). Yellowstone has lots of great WW, and its BS that it is all illegal.
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Old 10-13-2008   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chip View Post
the rescue costs alone would be pretty steep, not to mention the traffic/parking jams at put-ins, outfitter overcrowding (can you imagine the lust for profits?), etc.
chip thats some of the weakest ass shit I have ever heard (from a boater). no one said it would be open commercially. no one said they want it to be unlimited. and you know maybe we should close the grand canyon to boating cause rescue costs are pretty high?!

I float and I vote. Free Yellowstone!
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Old 10-13-2008   #6
 
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Buena Vista, Colorado
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The ban came out of the forties or fifties and was aimed at keeping fishermen from harassing wildlife. I know some runs that were poached in the early 90's. With out naming any names of rivers or of participants, all I can say is they were sweet! They were all run under moonlight after scouting during the day. The participants kayaked on Yellowstone lake to put the rangers at ease about where the boats were to be used. Stuff like this you have to fly under the radar and it was easier to get away with it years ago. Nowadays the rangers probably have a APP out on any kayak carrying vehicle that goes through the gate.
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Old 10-13-2008   #7
 
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Eagle, Idaho
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AW

I certainly don't know the details of the AW proceedings and how that all went down....sounds like they may have been too aggressive in their proposal??? BUT....AW is our voice with issues like this. The organization is FULL of very respectable and caring people that have our (boaters, etc.) best interest at heart. I'm sure with a revised plan a better proposal can be made?

I don't understand it.....we, as boaters, are one of the LEAST impactful recreationists. I'm NOT saying it should be open to commercial use....matter of fact I don't believe it should be at all (because it'll create access issues, permits, disrespectful and unappreciative custies, etc...and it's already too commercialized). But for the average joe kayaker/rafter, I don't understand why stringent stewardship practices couldn't be put in place so we can enjoy the wilderness Yellowstone has to offer. I guarantee we'd leave MUCH less of a footprint than already allowed recreational activites.

Poaching it might not be the best idea. Although I support your passion to git er' done.....it's not going to help with the fight to de-regulate ....the NPS will just see boaters as disrespectful, law-breaking hoodlems that don't deserve to enjoy it.

I say FREE YELLOWSTONE!! And work with AW to propose a reasonable access solution....I believe in em.
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Old 10-13-2008   #8
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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kayakers should be allowed access for at least 30 to 45 days a year for recreational use. no commercialized trips, pack in pack out, and a permit should till be needed. i think that would help with all the problems the park is talking about. we could get highwater so when it runs low nothing will be effected.
the permit would help with regulation in the park between kayakers and nature and what not. grizzley safe skills need to be used at all times and no littering or destroying land or stream beds would be key.

no m-gorge shenanigans with all the littering

free Yellowstone!
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Old 10-13-2008   #9
 
Jackson, Wyoming
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Personal responsibilty vs. park liability is the MAIN issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodTimes View Post
I certainly don't know the details of the AW proceedings and how that all went down....sounds like they may have been too aggressive in their proposal??? BUT....AW is our voice with issues like this. The organization is FULL of very respectable and caring people that have our (boaters, etc.) best interest at heart. I'm sure with a revised plan a better proposal can be made?

I don't understand it.....we, as boaters, are one of the LEAST impactful recreationists. I'm NOT saying it should be open to commercial use.....
To my knowledge, AW was not overly zealous in their approach. If anything, far from it. And no one has EVER advocated commercial use. A concerted effort has been made for years by local boaters to just have the penalties reduced to a $25 'misdemeanor' charge and no citations. That would amount to a $25 'fee' to the park, as well as a form of notification that there are a group of boaters in the Yellowstone canyon.
The 'problem,' according to park officials willing to speak off the record, is liability, plain and simple. National parks that allow climbing/mountaineering have faced staggering costs to maintain climbing rangers who are in charge of rescue, as well as the attendant equipment. Yellowstone wants to do everything in its power to prevent ever needing to fund and staff 'river/canyon' specific rescue employees. That, combined with their weak argument that kayaking/canoeing is not a 'traditional' mode of travel, has been sufficient to block any and all efforts to legititmize boating in the park, period. It has nothing to do with preventing fishermen from being in the backcountry, or clueless tourists on guided horseback trips, either. On both of my journeys in there, we saw a few fishermen, as well as ample evidence of fisherman impact (foot trails along the best fishing water), and rampant evidence of too-large horsepacking trains (15-20 piles of horseshit in concentrated zones on trails close to the river, gum wrappers, candy bar wrappers, film wrappers, etc), and a stench of horse piss and shit that was often overwhelming. Talk about negative impact in the backcountry/wilderness area of the park...... absurd.
The park's big objections come from liability/responsibility and the high visibility of the best access points. Their argument is that gapers would see a team of kayakers entering the river at Tower or some other place, and run back to their RV's and grab inner tubes and start mindlessly floating to their deaths. Law of natural selection, I say, but they don't see it that way. Until the park can be presented with a foolproof workable system that allows qualified paddlers to access the river sections they want, and take complete responsibility for their own safety and extrication, without encouraging unqualified paddlers and even non-boaters to blindly follow their lead, it will remain illegal to kayak the park's rivers.
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Old 10-13-2008   #10
 
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Frustrating.....such a "nanny" state of circumstances. I understand what you're saying....and I could certainly see some dumbass grabbing his innertube and jumping in after a few boaters.

Anyone that sues because THEY made a dumbass decision expecting someone ELSE to "protect" them is retarded. What the hell happened to natural selection anyway????? Thank GOD we have the government to protect us.

Inherent danger.....plain and simple.... I don't expect someone to come rescue my ass if I get in trouble.

Qualify boaters. Don't they require a permit of sorts for hiking? You have to take a wilderness/camping/survival course or something? Why can't it be that way for boaters? I mean, obviously a "test" of sorts and permitting would weed out the unexperienced. However, there's still gonna be some dumbass that "doesn't know about the regulations" that will inevitably grab his innertube.

Foolproof.....probably unlikely, as with anything. I'd sure like to hope though!!
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