Will raising seat help with rolls? - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-03-2011   #1
 
West Linn, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Will raising seat help with rolls?

due to my weight (200lbs), I use larger boats that tend to have very tall cockpits. Problem is I am short (especially my torso) when trying to do a roll the sides of my cockpit are so far up I am unable to twist or bend side to side.
The boat sidewalls are halfway up to my underarm.
Has anyone tried to raise there seat and if so, what was the outcome and how did they do it?
If it helps, I'm 5'6 but most of that is my legs
I was hoping to buy a villain, but now I wonder if I should be looking at boats with low sidewalls instead

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Old 08-03-2011   #2
Abron Cabron
 
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Santa Fe, Nuevo Mexico
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Yes it does help IMO. Absofrickinlutely. And I am pretty sure EJ thinks so too, which is why they made and sell the sweet cheeks seat pad. Its a vacuum mattress seatpad with beads in it (100% fill or 200% fill ) that you conform by sitting in it and then suck the air out so it stays in the shape of your keister.
I use the 200 in my 4fun and have had really great results, and its comfortable, and it locks your legs in a little better to the thighbraces. I use the 100 in my Superhero with happy results too.
It comes with the elite JK boats. neither of mine are. I bought one for the SH because I missed it paddling the first run or so without stealing the one from my playboat.

for reference, I am @ 5'7, 235lbs (short and stout) paddled a Wavesport EZG (for 5 years and ate a lot of shit thinking I was a crappy boater) and last year I bought a used Karnali, without demoing it, and I swam three times, the first day i tried it, because it was huge on me- like a supertanker. I seemed to flip over and just stay that way. when I traded it in, (on a villain :]) the pyrhana rep tried to convince me to try it again with a seat pad. I politely declined, having developed a serious aversion to that POS boat.

I hopped in several different JK boats and have had great success since. It may be that I was out of shape (I was), or that the EZG and karnali werent great fits for me(they weren't) but I have lost some weight, and been paddling hard. (i have swam this year, but it has been on class IV, and when i get tired and sloppy) sitting higher in the boat has a lot to do with it, along with rest of the package, but either way I have been feeling much better in my boats. everything fits better in a JK boat. ( same reason some people cant stand em. different fits for different folks). I traded in the villain on a 2011 superhero, because it has a smaller bow, and fits me better for my low water manky stuff I do trying to get better at creeking.
Hope this helps.
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Old 08-03-2011   #3
 
West Linn, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2006
Join Date: Jul 2011
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Great info Abron, thank you!
I also tried the super hero 2011 and i sat so low in the boat I couldn't even put my skirt on without help.
I will be buying a Villain soon (hopefully) and buying sweet cheeks, with it. or Maybe just buy the elite model?!
I am wondering if the reg "SL" version of the Villain would be better for me if the boat comes with a regular seat and then I add the sweet cheeks VS buying a elite version without a reg seat and only the sweet cheeks.. if that made any sense.
(more height if both seat and sweet cheeks combined) I have never seen a Elite Villain only the SL
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Old 08-03-2011   #4
 
West Linn, Oregon
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BTW Abron did you find the super hero to be a lot taller cockpit wise then the villain?
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Old 08-03-2011   #5
Abron Cabron
 
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Santa Fe, Nuevo Mexico
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It would probably be cheapest to get the SL villain and a 200 sweetcheeks. unless you are really needing the more durable plastic that the crosslink provides. but the since the elite comes with it, whatevers the better deal. CL plastic cannot be welded either. also clay wright mentioned stacking 2 pads to get really snug. that is another customization. here is a great description-from the horses mouth as they say:
Sweet Cheeks - Jackson Kayak Store
also I personally didnt notice the difference in height, but Creekboats do dip down a bit more it seems. I was just happy to be able to roll reliably.
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Old 08-03-2011   #6
Abron Cabron
 
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Santa Fe, Nuevo Mexico
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you should try the SH again with padding, because in my experience, the villain is a lot of boat especially upfront in the bow, and definitely geared more for the big water boater, class V and waterfalls. the SH is bigger around the midsection, but boofs and spins on a dime! that can be scary, but its the shiznit for micro creeky stuff and smaller rivers.
the villain is a great boat though, so you cant go wrong.
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Old 08-04-2011   #7
 
West Linn, Oregon
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Abron I noticed your from NM. hows the whitewater down there?
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Old 08-04-2011   #8
 
Arkansas during the off-season Nomadic during the summers! :), Arkansas & Colorado
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You've got to compare 2 things (sorry I teach biomechanics). When rolling a kayak you are trying to rotate about the kayaks longitudinal axis. The radius of gyration (ROG) about said axis will increase IF you sit higher. This will increase the effort required to roll the kayak making it more difficult. However, you mention that the kayak size or your torso size is physically preventing you from performing the roll mechanics to the best of your ability. Then the force to rotate the kayak about its longitudinal axis will be minimized/limited to some extent due to the physical impairment. SO, although increasing seat height will increase the ROG thereby increasing the difficulty in rolling the kayak, you should expect a greater increased force from the roll by performing the roll with proper mechanics due to your torso or the kayak not physically preventing you from rolling as a result of a higher seat. Of course there is a point of height at which you don’t want to cross where the ROG is too great. Ever notice how C1 rolls look much slower and difficult than kayak rolls?
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Old 08-04-2011   #9
 
West Linn, Oregon
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Thanks for the reply Gannon, I did take the negative aspects of raising my seat into consideration. There is only one way to find out. well two if you count surgically adding 3 inches to my torso. BTW how well would you be able to roll if your boat was 3 inches taller on the sides and back?
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Old 08-04-2011   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gannon_w View Post
... The radius of gyration (ROG) about said axis will increase
Pervert.
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