Why ask for names? - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 04-16-2004   #1
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
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Why ask for names?

As a member of the mb community I along with most of you have strong opinions that I enjoy telling to anyone who will listen. I am able to use this forum as a way of doing that and getting into spirited discussions/arguments over most anything I choose. But I have noticed a trend in most of these argument that I have either participated in or read; people, when lost for ammo in their argument, resort to making fun of someone's spelling or asking for their name when they don't provide one.

I can understand the spelling thing, easy target and it can be amusing at times, but I don't understand why it is so important for someone to leave their name. If you magically have their name are you going to come to their door and break an AT paddle off in their ass? Probably not. It doesn't matter what their name is, because someone chooses to remain anonymous doesn't make them less of a man/woman than someone who proudly posts their name. If you really want their name, be enterprising and look at their profile or search elsewhere on the internet, miraculously you might find it along with other helpful information to make breaking an AT paddle off in their ass easier.

The main point of this post/rant is, if you have something to say to either make or respond to an argument say it. Say it with pride and voice your opinion to the masses. If you are going to resort to making fun of someone's spelling or calling them less of a person for not putting their name down keep that to yourself, unless you really are going to break an AT paddle off in their ass, in which case let me know; I've always wanted to see that happen.

Zach Moore

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Old 04-16-2004   #2
JKB
 
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Wycoloboater/Zach,

I agree with you on some of your post. Opinions are important to share on the buzz. But "why ask for names"? Well for starts if you have been following the on going topic of "Why some kayakers should learn manners in the ocean" you see that tweeker is an un-mannerd person that is not sharing his identity. Oh, his profile says his name is Ripcurl. Great. That helps a lot. I think it's more a matter of keeping ur head and backing ur self up with what u spit out. (Oh, you also might want to update your profile.) It's not a matter of making fun of someones name as much as "say it with pride and voice it to the masses" so you might as well take credit for what you say. That's my opinion.

Peace, Joe Bevins
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Old 04-16-2004   #3
 
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joe how did your weekend go with the rubby horse thief
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Old 04-16-2004   #4
JKB
 
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Billy Boy,

It was a nice relaxed weekend. Still missing those nice days on the Grand though. How was WW. Tell all the laramie crew hi for me.

Lates, Joe
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Old 04-16-2004   #5
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Lame

It's about personal responsibility. When you sign your name, you are responsible for the things you say. When you turn up on the river, you just might have to answer to your comments online. Lack of personal responsibility is where the rudeness has come from on the internet, and for that matter on the roads of the Front Range. It is this anonymous crap that breaks down society. In short, if you are afraid to sign your name to what you say, why say anything at all? What an idea: "say it with pride" but be too scared to sign your name to it. If it were up to me (and it's not--Frenchy?) I would have everyone's IP adress posted with their name, to at least keep everyone honest.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm afraid you don't understand the effects that anonymity has on our society.

Mike Albrecht
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Old 04-16-2004   #6
 
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Bottom line is anyone can get up here, bash people, critisize, or just lend a hand....It is in mutual respect that a name is put. To me it shows respect, and that you yourself really back up what you believe in, and arent afraid to let the world know that you believe in what you said. Hobie for instance came on and gave a discription and gave his two cents. BUt at the end, everyone knew it was hobie....and if they take it personal, then they can perhaps talk to him about it. Anyone who comments against him, should in mutual respect do the same.

My two cents
"BEN GUSKA"
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Old 04-18-2004   #7
 
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I can appreciate the points made of owning up to what is being said on here and a personal responsibility to the discussions being made on mb, but I believe that many of you have missed my point to some degree. It seems to me that when someone runs out of a ammunition to add to the discussion they resort to asking for their name. Ben, not single you out - only using you as an example - during the aforementioned discussion on surfing manners posted to tweaker: "Why dont you put your name down? Its easy to bash and look big on the internet, especially when you dont put your name." You also reemphasized this point on this post, but to me, and I may be missing something because you did have relevant points earlier, you have run out of anything worthy to say and are just resorting to calling someone out when you are not actually adding anything to the discussion.

And to the discussion of anonymity, I think that you are confused as what anonymity can do to our society. It is not as bad as you believe it to be, when you say someone might have to pay for comments made online in an eddy somewhere then you are censoring that person. If someone is fearful for the reprocutions of comments made on mb then you are censoring their right to speak their mind. None of the comments ever made on MB deserve a beat down in the eddy. MB is a forum that serves as a way for people to ask questions and offer opinions and it does a wonderful job of this. If you begin to make people "answer to your comments online" you are censoring them and you are harming our society more than anonymity ever will.

Zach Moore
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Old 04-19-2004   #8
 
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Hi Zach,

There are some folks that hide behind anonymnity who never have anything constructive to say, and only flame other members or make mean, cruel or otherwise poisonous comments. They're referred to as "Trolls" in the cyber vernacular. Its the online equivalent of the vandal - nothing positive to add, only tearing down something that others have nourished and built. This degrades the atmosphere online and turns off other users, poisons the well, gets folks bent out of shape.

What's worse - it can discourage others with good intentions from sharing their views with the rest of us for fear that they may get flamed by someone to whom this community is just an interactive video game, someone who doesn't stop to think that there are real human beings out here in cyberland making these posts. That's a worse form of censorship than making folks accountable for what they say will ever be.

There were a lot of bad feelings when "Chunderboy" appeared and started posting insults, really lousy statements and talking shit on the forum last year. Statements that are INTENDED to hurt and anger others hurled by someone with no respect for others have no place here.

As for "running out of ammo," the only times I've seen members ask for names is when the other person is spewing insults and not even trying to add anything positive or make some kind of rational argument.

While I have seen some regular members posting less than positive things using an alias, the worst offenders seem to suddenly appear, hide behind anonymnity like "tweaker" did, and then disappear after creating a lot of bad vibes. I don't need that destructive mentality - if folks can be held responsible for what they say, they'll be more civil and think twice before fouling this space. Remember the great Taoist philospher who said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

--Andy
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Old 04-19-2004   #9
 
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WYCOloboater dude....
Hey, I completely see your point, and understand it. The only reason that I pinted out on the surfing topic was that I felt he was taking cheap shots, and not backing it up with a name. I think I do hold a grudge on this point. One of my X-girlfriends mom passes away with cancer a while back, and someone sent her "anonymouse (SP)" emails making fun of her. She was really hurt, and i just couldnt believe someone could do such a thing. I dont think I had ever been so mad. It was in complete disrespect. The only thing that I hate about the internet is that it kinda gives people "balls" and lets them say things that they might normally not say because they can stay "anonymous (SP)". I honestly have felt the power....(i.e. break up with a GF over the internet haha)...i know its pathetic.....I just think that if someone has something to say, whether or not its to bash someone , or compliment them, a name is due in part of respect. I dont think anyone in the right mind is going to find them off the buzz and wanna beat there ass, and if they do, then maybe it was just taken to heart. My good rule of thumb is, ill try not to say anything on the internet, that I wont say to whoever im talking to in person. "for every action there is an opposite but equal reaction"-applies most everywhere, but the internet.....haha.......

Anyways, we need to get out boating, this is pathetic what we are argueing about...or more or less "discussing in a positive manner (SP) ..soooooo.......Barrels running for 2 more months at least.....see ya all out there.......

Ben-jamin guska.....:P
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Old 04-20-2004   #10
 
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Zach,

I don't believe I'm confused about the impact of anonymity. In fact, I don't even think that you disagree with me about the impact on society. I think that rather you believe that holding a person responsible for their public speech is a worse thing yet. Herein lies the discord. Holding a person responsible (or censoring--oh no!) is not a bad thing. Censorship happens everyday. You don't go around saying everything that you wish in public, so why should you on the internet? People only do b/c they are chickens-t. See how I was censored there? I don't spell out what I want to out of respect for the readers. You censored me. However, with the advent of the i-net people feel less censored by public opinion (which could range from a dirty look to a beating--none of which happens on the i-net). That is when scum like the person in Jib's example emerge and foul up society.

Another example is seen driving, as mentioned. You often witness drivers who feel safe from the confines of their cars blasting insults and foul language at others as they speed away. Do you think these people would act this way face to face? Not likely. But you wouldn't want to censor them, would you? Maybe it would hurt their self-esteem. Where I grew up, there was censorship on the roads. If you acted in the manner described, you might well be followed and beaten severely. Bunch of hicks, right? Well, drivers around here are pretty respectful. The anonymity does not exist yet. And I will take it any day over I225.

So if you want to argue that an uncensored free-for-all-Jack-Karoak-stream-of-consciousness exchange (with no consequences) is better than our traditional methods of maintaining civility and general respect, go right ahead. But you won't be able to convince me by throwing out pc labels like censorship. Nope.

If you need details about why respect, civility, and personal responsibility are good thing for our society than you might be beyond recovery.

And next time you are lamenting some societal censorship that keeps people from blurting out whatever the hell they please, stop and think about what it hurts to keep one's mouth shut. What would it have hurt Tweaker? More than Jib hurt him with "censorship?"

Again, I'm not trying to be abrasvie, only helpful. I'm afraid I was not, but I try once in a while anyways.

Mike
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