River running in a creek boat or Creeking in a river runner ?'s - Mountain Buzz
 

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Old 02-02-2012   #1
 
Shelby, North Carolina
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River running in a creek boat or Creeking in a river runner ?'s

I'm new to the whole kayaking thing, but I've always progressed very fast in everything i've done sports wise over the years. Now i'm wanting to try kayaking. I'm in a delima between buying a creek boat (Nomad or Shiva) or going with a river runner (Remix or Karnali). I'm thinking a river runner might be easier for me to learn in, etc. but i'm hoping to be doing some class 4 creeks by summer of 2013 and hopefully maybe the Green Narrows by 2014. I just don't wanna get the wrong boat for what my plans are and what i wanna do with it. Suggestions or advice anyone?

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Old 02-02-2012   #2
 
Beaverton, Oregon
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The Burn is between the two points, but I wouldn't call it a beginner boat. The Remix should be just fine for creeks. (I see many of them being creeked in the PNW, but our creeks are much higher volume)
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Old 02-02-2012   #3
 
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Copper Mountain, Colorado
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Get a used jefe. If you can dial in that boat you'll be able to paddle anything.
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Old 02-02-2012   #4
 
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Thornton, Colorado
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I would say the thing you want to keep in mind is that "most" creek boats have little to no edges. While river runners do.

The edges allow you to turn much quicker. As a beginner you will need to learn getting in and out of eddies and this is where the edges will come into play the most.

Learning to make sharp eddy turns in a big boat that doesn't have edges will be more difficult.

With all that being said, I would agree that either the Burn or the Jefe would be a good boat to start with, as both have more edge than any other creek boats out there.

Personally I would suggest a Burn over the Jefe. It is my experience that the Burn tracks (stays on-line) much better than the Jefe.
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Old 02-02-2012   #5
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I would vote for neither. I say get a river running playboat design like a Jackson Fun or even a full on playboat if you want to be really aggressive. You'll want a boat like this eventually anyway. I think this kind of boat will force you learn body position and edge control much better and faster rather than relying on the boat's volume to do the work for you. You can certainly run that type of boat in class IV water and even beyond. I think that's the boat of choice for the aggressive beginning paddler and a river runner is the boat of choice for the less aggressive paddler afraid of taking a beating.

But of the two choices you offered, I'd say "river runner". People take boats like the Remix down all sorts of creeks so it's not like they will hold you back from The Green. In fact, the line between creekboat and river runner is getting increasingly blurred. It doesn't really matter because in 2 years you'll probably have already cracked your boat and need something new.

When you run The Green in two years, before sure to tell everybody you run The Green as a code word of saying you're a really awesome boater. Just kidding. Have fun getting into the sport. I hear boating has been good in the SE this year.
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Old 02-02-2012   #6
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i don't think that it matters whether you end up in a creek boat or river runner. what is most important is that the boat fits you comfortably, and you are within the your particular boat's weight range. regardless of how fast you think you will progress into the world of creeking, you will definitely benefit from paddling a playboat your first year or two. when you get to the point of aggressively playing your way through class 3 and 4 rapids, and rolling up on the first try every time, that's when you should start figuring out what creek boat to buy.

this past year i have been paddling both the nomad 8.5 and remix 79. they are both great boats, but i think that a nomad would suit a beginner's needs better. it resurfaces better, turns easier, rolls easier, and i think it has better stability.

if you do end up in a creek boat or river runner your first season try to play it in all features you can find. surf, spin, splat, ferry, attain, boof, rock spin, and most importantly catch as many eddies possible.
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Old 02-02-2012   #7
 
Shelby, North Carolina
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I do NOT want a play boat. Play boating does not interest me at all. I may change my mind after i get into it, but i wanna get as good as i can fast! I'd love to be able to run class 4 creeks this summer. Dunno if that's a possible task to get that good from just starting out til mid or end summer this year, but i sure am gonna try if time allows me to! Back to the topic creeker vs river runner. Sounds like there's not a big enough difference, but what about the hull designs? How does a flatter hull with more edge/edges paddle vs a more rounded hull with less edge? Is there big differences between the two hulls and since i'm new to the sport will i be able to tell much difference in paddleing between boats with different hulls?
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Old 02-02-2012   #8
 
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Arvada, Colorado
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class 4-5, your gonna definately want a runner or creekboat. a playboat? hell no. playboats are for playin. in a hole. in a park. in the same spot. spendin half the day struggling to get to the surface on a river that can kill you isnt my idea of a good time. thats not aggresive thats dumb. i have a dagger nomad and love it, which is a creeker. small boat small water, bigger boat bigger water. go to kayak session.com and check out 1 of the thousand videos and see what everybody else uses, plus every boat imaginable in action.
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Old 02-02-2012   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GosuPaintballer View Post
I do NOT want a play boat. Play boating does not interest me at all. I may change my mind after i get into it, but i wanna get as good as i can fast! I'd love to be able to run class 4 creeks this summer. Dunno if that's a possible task to get that good from just starting out til mid or end summer this year, but i sure am gonna try if time allows me to! Back to the topic creeker vs river runner. Sounds like there's not a big enough difference, but what about the hull designs? How does a flatter hull with more edge/edges paddle vs a more rounded hull with less edge? Is there big differences between the two hulls and since i'm new to the sport will i be able to tell much difference in paddleing between boats with different hulls?
I have paddled with several people that have this attitude. Don't rush into whitewater that is over your head. Lots of people run 4-5 in a "river running playboat" such as a Jackson Fun, they are designed differently than a straight up playboat...

I learned to paddle and run rivers in a playboat, now I paddle a creeker and I am sure it made me a better paddler.

People run waterfalls and V+ creek runs in river runners, it's more about the paddler than the boat.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skillkilla View Post
small boat small water, bigger boat bigger water.
Ever seen video of Dane Jackson? He makes big water look easy in a playboat...

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Old 02-02-2012   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GosuPaintballer View Post
I do NOT want a play boat. Play boating does not interest me at all. I may change my mind after i get into it, but i wanna get as good as i can fast! I'd love to be able to run class 4 creeks this summer
you're going to get spanked
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