Liquid Logic selling direct to consumer - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-19-2014   #1
 
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Liquid Logic selling direct to consumer

Saw this on Reddit, so understand the source, but looks to be a legit reply. See lots of change over the next few years with the recent acquisitions and new business models, hope the local shops survive.
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Old 08-19-2014   #2
Don
 
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I've heard that

I heard that it was due to increased shipping costs and the loss of some market share in WW boats. They have decided to start shipping directly and that might be due to smaller preseason orders. The down side for the consumer is that you will now have to pay the shipping costs that the retailer ate in the past and you won't be able to roll "demo charges" into the purchase price. The good side is that everyone will have the ability to work directly with the manufacture themselves you will now get to give your feedback directly to the builders. Kayak retail might be going the way of the dodo if paddlers don't continue to buy locally all the manufactures might stat selling directly and just doing regional "demo" events each summer.
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Old 08-19-2014   #3
 
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It is true.....

Yes, Liquidlogic is going direct, how it all shakes out is yet to be seen. As far as the Dodo; perseverance, passion, customer service, instruction, river beta, and of course water will keep the core shops going. Water is the the only uncertainty...

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Old 08-19-2014   #4
 
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Well, if that is the case the shipping should be included in the price, or the price should come down on the boat.

LL and or anyone had mark up on their product so they made a profit and the shop made a profit. margins are from 35%-50% depending on what the shop buys, and at what time etc...

I am not going to try to tell how it all works, I only want people to be aware that MSRP to the MFG is a large increase in PROFIT to the MFG there for we should see a decrease in price, free shipping or something to offset what the Dealers were making.

If they sell direct at $1,000+ and make the custy pay shipping, you/we are now getting jacked.

I boat Jackson Kayak, their boats coast 1200$ but I get every dollar of that in use or other before the boat is done.

I dont and wolud never paddle dagger/WS because it is impossible to get a warranty from them, and if you do its a hull you put together or they want 600$ or something nutty like that.

At least LL had and has the 2nd best in the states at least, and we will have to see how it all plays out.

My point is when it all goes to the MFG, alot of good can come from that, if they put the money back into the CO. I have asked Jackson to sell direct for years, why they wouldn't want the extra mark up is beyond me, and they have the strictest dealer policys to protect the dealer.

It is up to the dealer to be good and knowledgeable to the customer, and to get the demos, bring in the hard sells etc... that keep a dealer great.

Matti at Ten Mile is a GREAT example, he is always fired up, on top of the latest gear and happ's. This guy knows and loves whitewater, he brings in all the hardest to find products and goes wayyyy beyond for his customers.

I agree, that is what it takes.
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Old 08-19-2014   #5
 
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No Liquid Logic or Native at Summer OR. I got an email the next week explaining that LL was only going direct to consumer.
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Old 08-19-2014   #6
 
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here is an example:

Fluid sells/sold direct when they had a bunch of less than desirable outfitting in this last batch of boats for 799 w free shipping and made some money, i say some, because at 799 they did not sell many boats.

then they dropped it to 400$ shipped to your door and either broke even, or took a loss after selling out all the boats.

So.....
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Old 08-19-2014   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbuilds View Post
here is an example:

Fluid sells/sold direct when they had a bunch of bad outfitting in this last batch of boats for 799 w free shipping and made some money, i say some, because at 799 they did not sell many boats.

then they dropped it to 400$ shipped to your door and either broke even, or took a loss after selling out all the boats.

So.....
Fluid did change their approach to selling kayaks NOT because of bad outfitting or other things as suggested BUT because of the issues that arose with stores that carried their boats. In light of that, they switched to an E-Online approach that transferred savings to the public and also kept their profits marginal and maintainable. The reduction is pricing was to liquidate stock. Actually, most models and sizes were liquidated at the higher price. The few remaining sizes that didn't sell were then sold off successfully at a lower price. Fluid is committed to continuing the E-Online Purchasing program and also committed to transferring the savings on the the public. With a new lineup of boats coming out - long, play, creeker - I anticipate that the E-Online approach will be good for all. It's not a surprise that other companies are addressing it and/or adopting it. It makes sense. The only drawback is not having a store to tryout the boat. The solution....have local Team paddlers or Reps that demo the products.

I'm not saying there wasn't an issue with the outfitting...there was...and that's been remedied thankfully.
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Old 08-19-2014   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwave View Post
Fluid did change their approach to selling kayaks NOT because of bad outfitting or other things as suggested BUT because of the issues that arose with stores that carried their boats. In light of that, they switched to an E-Online approach that transferred savings to the public and also kept their profits marginal and maintainable. The reduction is pricing was to liquidate stock. Actually, most models and sizes were liquidated at the higher price. The few remaining sizes that didn't sell were then sold off successfully at a lower price. Fluid is committed to continuing the E-Online Purchasing program and also committed to transferring the savings on the the public. With a new lineup of boats coming out - long, play, creeker - I anticipate that the E-Online approach will be good for all. It's not a surprise that other companies are addressing it and/or adopting it. It makes sense. The only drawback is not having a store to tryout the boat. The solution....have local Team paddlers or Reps that demo the products.

I'm not saying there wasn't an issue with the outfitting...there was...and that's been remedied thankfully.

this is exactly what I meant to say, and I am all for it. I changed my wording to less than desirable, but it was a culprit in the mix. Like you said they fixed it quickly and have an option available for the older boats as well.

Fliud is one of the better MFGS out there. I want to show the price points as my example.
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Old 08-21-2014   #9
Don
 
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Answers

Here you go... selling less in WW means direct to consumer retail. Playak
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Old 08-21-2014   #10
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Brick and mortar shops are dieing anyways. Why keep filtering through retail shops if everyone is just shopping online for the cheapest price anyways. Totally makes sense. As long as they keep making legit designs that lots of people paddle the opportunity to demo will always be there.

For instance without having to pay a demo fee or store involved I could paddle:

Bazooka (any size)
Remix (69/79)
Stomper (any size)
Jefe (M)
Mamba (L)
Nomad (M/L)
Karma (M/L)
Magnum (80)
Burn III (L)
Recon (L)

Definitely more boats but this is a good sampling of the in production creekers I have easy access to for demo purposes. I can hit a few rocks too which the store wouldn't like on there demo.
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