irony of Kenya,Mexico,Chile,etc. international boating - Mountain Buzz
 

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Old 02-14-2008   #1
btt
 
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irony of Kenya,Mexico,Chile,etc. international boating

does anyone else see the irony in the forum listings(basically just ads,afterall...),which gloss over the realities of boating in war torn countries(kenya),or those with corrupt police/army forces(mexico),or famous for mowing down the landscape(so we can have a mcburger),displacement of the locals,and undrinkable,polluted water(just fill in the blank,lots of candidates...)?i guess those body parts,floating past you,just add to the mystique of a true "hand(head/leg) roll",dude---to the extreme,mr.dew,i'll see you at the vail games,dude!!!or as an incentive,to buy into their "trip",they offer you a clothing/outdoor/boating item,that was produced in horrendous enviromental/labor conditions,in the overseas factory,stamped with a well known outdoor company name(..."just did it!!"..."your ticket to the outdoors"...."we are so green!!!!"....----i guess i dont ever see michael jordan wanting to work at his shoe factory line...).they keep you in their little "green zone"(it works so well in iraq,and keeps life so "real"....) for tourists,so you dont have to experience the ClassVI life of the true nature of their country,under brutal rule.how well perceived,do you think you "eco-tourists",who dump your cash at a few,isolated businesses,are seen by the locals---perhaps,keeping alive old stereotypes?im sorry to offend any of you PC boaters,who've just had a great time,being shuttled in and out of the "green zone",on your vacation;my attitude was hardened after my brother and his friend,strayed off the coastal "tourist" highways,of mexico,looking for gas,and were robbed at gunpoint,twice,by the local mexican "police",and came close to being put in a shallow grave,in the desert,both times,on their way to belize.but then again,im sure its just me,and everyone else had nothing but "sunshine and sprinkles" on their international trips.afterall,going there,is just "....like going to utah to boat....",says more than one "pop and fresh" boater,i talked to.......

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Old 02-14-2008   #2
Kjirsten
 
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I'm gonna pass on what I was told. Break up your lines into easily consumable pieces and try to minimize the extraneous parenthetical thoughts to one per sentence. It will help people access your real ideas.

As for the key issues, I'm as guilty as anyone else of going to second and third world countries as a tourist and spending a few American dollars so I can have a good time and see a pretty place. I understand the inequity and misery that is the reality of a lot of those places, but I also understand that we have our own inequity and misery here that I try to combat daily in one form or another. I go there to escape that- I can't save the whole world and neither can you. All we can do is a little bit at a time to make the world a better place to live in and spending even a few American dollars in mom and pop businesses in a third world country is doing a little bit to help.

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does anyone else see the irony in the forum listings(basically just ads,afterall...),which gloss over the realities of boating in war torn countries(kenya),or those with corrupt police/army forces(mexico),or famous for mowing down the landscape(so we can have a mcburger),displacement of the locals,and undrinkable,polluted water(just fill in the blank,lots of candidates...)?i guess those body parts,floating past you,just add to the mystique of a true "hand(head/leg) roll",dude---to the extreme,mr.dew,i'll see you at the vail games,dude!!!or as an incentive,to buy into their "trip",they offer you a clothing/outdoor/boating item,that was produced in horrendous enviromental/labor conditions,in the overseas factory,stamped with a well known outdoor company name(..."just did it!!"..."your ticket to the outdoors"...."we are so green!!!!"....----i guess i dont ever see michael jordan wanting to work at his shoe factory line...).they keep you in their little "green zone"(it works so well in iraq,and keeps life so "real"....) for tourists,so you dont have to experience the ClassVI life of the true nature of their country,under brutal rule.how well perceived,do you think you "eco-tourists",who dump your cash at a few,isolated businesses,are seen by the locals---perhaps,keeping alive old stereotypes?im sorry to offend any of you PC boaters,who've just had a great time,being shuttled in and out of the "green zone",on your vacation;my attitude was hardened after my brother and his friend,strayed off the coastal "tourist" highways,of mexico,looking for gas,and were robbed at gunpoint,twice,by the local mexican "police",and came close to being put in a shallow grave,in the desert,both times,on their way to belize.but then again,im sure its just me,and everyone else had nothing but "sunshine and sprinkles" on their international trips.afterall,going there,is just "....like going to utah to boat....",says more than one "pop and fresh" boater,i talked to.......
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Old 02-14-2008   #3
 
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Dude, you sound like a xenophobe. Shit happens, thats true but hopefully people at least educate themselves and take steps to minimize the risks they are talking, on the river as well as where they travel.

Bottom line, you walking a fine line of being a biggit.

I spent a week in Mexico over thanks giving that was WELL off the coastal "tourist" hightways and had no problems.
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Old 02-14-2008   #4
 
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You keep using the word "irony", but I do not think you know what that word means.
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Old 02-14-2008   #5
 
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Hmmm, no coherent point made by your post.

There is no irony in whitewater boaters traveling the world looking for whitewater. Just because a country has problems doesn't mean that the incredibly small community of boaters caused them, wants them to happen or has any part in the political process.

If anything boaters provide a source of income to impoverished locals who benefit from the cash just as the boaters benefit from the services.

Your brother could have had a bad experience in the wrong part of new york, la, or new orleans, it doesn't mean people shouldn't boat in the US. One negative experience does not mean that boating in mexico is bad.

If you are feeling terribly guilty about the worlds problems, why not go try to solve them instead of bashing whitewater explorers who travel the world in a generally positive manner.
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Old 02-14-2008   #6
 
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I'm not exactly sure what your beef or point is, yes it can be dangerous to travel abroad,yes you are sometimes indirectly putting money into corrupt hands.You boat in the U S don't you,we have our fair share of social injustice ,environmental degradation,money funneled to the rich,and there aren't many regimes in the world today more corrupt than Bush/Cheney/corporate America, just on a different scale.
I have been attacked by drunks in Tapachula,harrassed by gangs of street urchins in Mexico City and San Pedro Sula,had to rough up a deported gang banger and bribe our way out of traffic violations in Belize,and survived innumerable moochers and devious women,etc.I have also seen fantastic natural wonders,ruins ,architecture and museums,done 1 st descents,world class body surfing ,snorkeling ,and mountain biking,while experiencing exotic cultures and meeting awesome humble, friendly,generous ,helpful people.You get the full range of reality.

If you want to help the people and help the environment,buy MOM AND POP,like Takeme said.The people there have been promised ECO -TOURISM will benefit them if they preserve the environment.There are faux enviro touristic enterprises,that use environmentalism as a sales pitch,be wise.

There is no desert within 1000 miles of Belize. wtf?

To quote Stu Hamm,bassist extrordinaire'if you're scared stay home'
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Old 02-15-2008   #7
Kjirsten
 
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Nice anecdotal evidence Cayo. This passage makes me smile- and want to travel.

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I have been attacked by drunks in Tapachula,harrassed by gangs of street urchins in Mexico City and San Pedro Sula,had to rough up a deported gang banger and bribe our way out of traffic violations in Belize,and survived innumerable moochers and devious women,etc.I have also seen fantastic natural wonders,ruins ,architecture and museums,done 1 st descents,world class body surfing ,snorkeling ,and mountain biking,while experiencing exotic cultures and meeting awesome humble, friendly,generous ,helpful people.You get the full range of reality.
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Old 02-16-2008   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakemetotheRiver View Post
I'm gonna pass on what I was told. Break up your lines into easily consumable pieces and try to minimize the extraneous parenthetical thoughts to one per sentence. It will help people access your real ideas.

As for the key issues, I'm as guilty as anyone else of going to second and third world countries as a tourist and spending a few American dollars so I can have a good time and see a pretty place. I understand the inequity and misery that is the reality of a lot of those places, but I also understand that we have our own inequity and misery here that I try to combat daily in one form or another. I go there to escape that- I can't save the whole world and neither can you. All we can do is a little bit at a time to make the world a better place to live in and spending even a few American dollars in mom and pop businesses in a third world country is doing a little bit to help.

takeme----what triggered this was the timing of that kenya ad,vs the current conflict there,but the next mexico ad caused something to snap inside.you see there is happy eco-tourists stories,then there is also not- so- happy eco-tourist stories!i want to believe that these are just mom and pop operations,and not just an outpost of princess cruise lines.........
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Old 02-16-2008   #9
btt
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badazws6 View Post
Dude, you sound like a xenophobe. Shit happens, thats true but hopefully people at least educate themselves and take steps to minimize the risks they are talking, on the river as well as where they travel.

Bottom line, you walking a fine line of being a biggit.

I spent a week in Mexico over thanks giving that was WELL off the coastal "tourist" hightways and had no problems.

badazws6----xenophobe?biggit(actually,its spelled bigot...)?hardly.the rainbow of my customers,people i work with,and those i boat with and love,would tell you a different story.you see i dont care what color/sex/religion it is ,of the people who terrorize my family/friends(and yes even you),both domestically and internationally----im not going to sugarcoat it and blame it on the irish,just to help keep it in a PC balance for you........im glad you had a great time there;my family member was terrorized there,bottom line.
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Old 02-16-2008   #10
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You keep using the word "irony", but I do not think you know what that word means.

jmack----i put that in there,just for you......
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