Hosed on demo kayak, what do I do? - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-17-2005   #1
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11
Hosed on demo kayak, what do I do?

I recently went on a gates of ladore trip as a gear boater, so my friend and I shared cost on a demo wavesport from a shop I won't mention "yet". When we got to first night camp on a 4 day trip we realized that the hip pads were missing (I mean nothing but the thin plastic and velcro strips). This sucked since I wanted to demo the fit system, and I was falling out of the boat trying to do tricks on waves. When my friend returned the boat, she told them the story and they laughed it off, told her that most people don't even use hip pads, and sent her on her way feeling stupid, and a little pissed. we payed $65 to demo this boat and I want some compensation since we didn't get what we payed for.

I need some advise on how to handle this.

thanks all

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Old 08-17-2005   #2
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 18
I'll agree that the "Most people don't use hip pads" comment is BS. It's a integral part of the boat for 90% of paddlers out there. I would say to get the shop to give you a comp demo of that boat (with the hip pads) or any other boat you might be interested in. Since you were interested in the outfitting that should be reasonable for both parties. Don't be a jerk becuase they essentially don't owe you anything. Sure it's their responsibility to make sure the boat is complete and respresents the product, but you have to double check to make sure it's all good. My $.02.
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Old 08-17-2005   #3
 
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Eagle County, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2002
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 969
Ask to speak to the owner/manager of the shop. Explain your situation, tell them that you are plugged in to the mountainbuzz community and you will explain your situation to thousands of potential customer be it a positive or negative outcome, let them decide how they react. Tell them that you aren't trying to pull a fast one on them, that you were truly disapointed with your experience.

Report back to us after you are done discussing with the shop. Don't say that they suck, or are assholes, etc. Just explain to everyone what happened, and don't leave anything out. Boaters will always support the shops that treat them right, and word gets around. My local shop treats me like family, and for good reason. I've spend a few $grand there, and I've introduced maybe 5 people to the sport of kayaking, some of which have blown tons of money at their shop as well...
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Old 08-17-2005   #4
 
Front Range, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 274
yeah, it's probably the fact I am still getting my legs under me, so to speak, but I was *amazed* at the difference it makes in your boat's handling and performance if you've got the hip pads a) in, and b) properly fitted.

This weekend was the first time it's been cool enough here to break out the hydroskin "britches," and the extra mm/cm or two those (ahem...) *sexy* pants added to my ass/ the snugness of the pad fit (snug but not tight, y'know?) made all the difference in the world! I liked my boat before (a Jackson fun), but after doing a couple of runs and really feeling "attached" to it, I felt like I'd never really seen how well the boat handled and responded before. I'm in agreement with John & WL: I don't think I realized until I had 'em in right just how much of a performance difference the hip pads make. Both of these guys had great suggestions, so I'm just gonna butt out now and tell you I'd have been disappointed, too.

Especially now that I've figured out what I was missing out on all along!
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Old 08-17-2005   #5
tdm
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 20
minus foam

I have demo'd a few boats in the past few years and have never had a shop sales person provide hip pads/foam in a demo boat (without me asking for it). Usually this time of year the demo's are a bit used. If the shop supplied foam to every joe paddler that came in, the shop would not have any foam to sell to us. The typical demo person is new to the sport and would not know what the foam is for. I believe it was the fault of the joe who picked up the boat without inspecting it. Did they charge you for the foam you lost? If not, then call it a wash....

tdm
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Old 08-17-2005   #6
KSC
 
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Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 2,105
Quote:
have demo'd a few boats in the past few years and have never had a shop sales person provide hip pads/foam in a demo boat (without me asking for it). Usually this time of year the demo's are a bit used. If the shop supplied foam to every joe paddler that came in, the shop would not have any foam to sell to us. The typical demo person is new to the sport and would not know what the foam is for. I believe it was the fault of the joe who picked up the boat without inspecting it. Did they charge you for the foam you lost? If not, then call it a wash....
I don't think he's demoing a Godzilla. I'm sure this boat comes with a fat (or whatever the latest greatest is) outfitting system that has strap on pads with shims.

I enjoy hip pads in my boat, but then I wear a belt on my pants too.
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Old 08-17-2005   #7
Don
 
Preacher of the Profit Paddling Since: 1990
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Take it to the net....

What ever you decide to do I would start by bringing it up on the net first, before taking it up with your local shop. That always works. (kidding of course) Shops love to work with people who slam first and ask second.

It is very possible that it was our boat. Did you ask for hip pads and take the time to dial yourself in before taking the boat out? Or, did you just have someone else pick-up the boat for you? It drives me crazy when people have other folks do everything for them expect a perfect detailed fit. Helmets are the best example. How in the world can you know someone else's head size and fit prefference?

I outfitted three folks this moring for demo boats. Only one out of the three wanted hip pads in the boat. Would I boat without hip pads... not by choice. But, that's just my choice. Others won't fit so they don't like them.

Liquid Logic does not have the greatest rental options when it comes to hip pads. Dagger had the air filler ones over the past few seasons and that really limited who could fit in their boats. Jackson has smaller seat trays than the others and we rarley use the factory hip pads in our beginner classes. WaveSport has a great system, and because of that it's often pouched and used in other boats. Just like the Jackson Foot Bag, it might not be what's supposed to be in there- but people want to try it in every boat. Float bags- are in all the boats, but some customers insist in removing them.

If you want to paddle a retail quality boat, you have two options. Buy a retail boat, or spend the extra time to personally outfit your boat before leaving the shop. If not, it may not be there from the person before you. We would much prefer you take the time to fit the boat before you leave the shop. It saves use many many hours of work repairing the demo boats and replacing stripped out parts that other folks damage trying to fit boats at the river.

We all need to work together on this one. When it's all out in the public, people need to hear both sides. Internet is great for finding directions and poor for setting disputes.

Give us a call and we'll comp you for a sameday rental, spend sometime in the shop and that boat will be as prefect as we can get it. Nothing will ever be as good as adjusting every position and customizing the foam. It just takes time.
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Old 08-17-2005   #8
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 89
Yea, I had the same thing happen at the same shop 2 years ago. Yea, it's annoying. They weren't very apologetic. I learned my lesson and now I check the equipment carefully and they always give me what I ask for. Perhaps they should just say "check the outfitting" before you grab the boat.

To the store's credit, other times they have been very good about rental equipment. The problem is that their 2-3 employees can get busy when 5 customers walk into their shop. I'd rather get my boat and go rather than wait 30 minutes.

Also, I'm amazed at how cheap the rental boats are here in Denver. In each of 4 places where I've rented boats (Deerfield, Asheville, Reno, California), the boats cost twice as much to rent. And the knowledge and service is the best here, even if all the salesmen didn't go to charm school. I'd rather have the knowledge and service than the charm.
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Old 08-17-2005   #9
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11
thanks all for your input, they were all very helpfull. I didn't pick up the boat, and I agree that it should have been checked over, but the hip pads were completely gone, in a boat the advertises comfort and control, not just foam glued in. why wouldnt a shop make sure there boats were complete when they send them out. do they not check them upon return. I'm a ski tech in the winter, and have dealt with screw ups, which usually ends up in refund of money or free demo, depends on if the customer can ski the next day. I'm from out of town, so a free demo does me no good.

It's a tough deal, I'm not trying to be an asshole, just trying to be fare.

thanks again all!!
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Old 08-17-2005   #10
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 373
Hate to say it, but buyer be aware. It is up to you or whoever picks up the boat to make sure it fits or is capable to. Maybe that comes from experience, but if you were a newbie in the same shop, they would probably take the time to show you things like outfitting options. If you walk-in & tell them the boat you want and not ask any questions they will probably assume you know your [email protected]

Those boys at Confluence are more than fair and are good at what they do. Call them first. It was good of you not to name names.

Steve.
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