Creeking vs. River Running? - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 04-26-2007   #1
 
jaydpiii's Avatar
 
Nashua, New Hampshire
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Creeking vs. River Running?

I am new to WW - just wanting to get into it after flatwater with Wilderness Tsunami 140.

Looking at WaveSport Diesel as top, but open to others for both myself and my wife.
What is difference between Creeking and river Running?

I know there are different boats - better at one than the other - but what is the difference between a Creek (requiring a Creeker or creek boat) and a River - requiring a river runner?

I know Big water is basically a very big & wide river,
and Playboats are basically for like ocean surfing/playing (and some playboats for playing on waves on rivers creeks.

So, aside from that - what is diff between river-running and Creek-boating (in Kayaks)?

Thanks.

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Old 04-26-2007   #2
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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major differences

there are some big differences when picking a boat just likea pair a shoes! creek boats that are designed speciafically for creeking have displacement hulls more so than planning, if you are looking fora good river runner and not hair boating than a diesel is a very good choice! creekers and most river runners these days have the same options when it comes to safet bars for pulling out pinned boat. check out mamba or habitat if you want more creeker. the differences in hulls are a big part of choosing which boat is best for your style of boating,
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Old 04-26-2007   #3
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Jay, if you are a true beginner, I would recomend taking lessons. That way you can try their equipment and ww before dropping a load of cash. That way you get to start on a good learning curve (one going the right way) some people take a while to get used to being upside down under water and learning the roll. But maybe you already can roll your sea kayak?

Creeks tend to be steeper and more technical. Again, a good school can explain all the different kinds of ww and the techniques and boats used. And have you trying them in a few sessions. Well worth it.
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Old 04-26-2007   #4
 
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Nashua, New Hampshire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caspermike View Post
there are some big differences when picking a boat just like a pair of shoes! creek boats that are designed speciafically for creeking have displacement hulls more so than planning, if you are looking fora good river runner and not hair boating than a diesel is a very good choice! creekers and most river runners these days have the same options when it comes to safet bars for pulling out pinned boat. check out Mamba or habitat if you want more creeker. the differences in hulls are a big part of choosing which boat is best for your style of boating,
Most of rivers in our area are not big, and there are a lot of local Class II's. A lot of the trips offered by our local NH AMC Paddlers club are either Touring or Class II. (A few Class III+.) I have seen the differences in design between a creeker and a River Runner, and have a good feel for them, and those that cross-over and do a little of the other.
And since we are not really into play-boating much - just want to enjoy the Class II's, llearn to read river and learn how to manuever in the various types of water, some - without "tricks". Looked at Mamba as an all-arounder, Creeker - maybe too much of a Creeker.

However, I still want to know what type of water are we talking about when one says good Creeker or good river-runner. Boat style I figured out, mostly. Displacement Hull vs. Planning Hull, hard or Soft Chines, Volume, Rocker, etc.

But that does not explain the water, water type that each is used for?
That is the explanaton, that I have not been able to find?

Is a Creeker for Class II's and above?
Or is a Creeker for any Class, with large falls (or drops (?))?
How large is a water fall before it is considered better to use a Creeker, or a River-Runner?
Are River-Runners just for flowing rivers with Clas II and below?

Etc.
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Old 04-26-2007   #5
 
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Okay...neither a river runner or a creeker is determined by the specific class of water it can run. You can take either on class I through V. A river runner is typically designed for more speed, is usually better for low gradient, but bigger water, meaning potential for large holes and big ass waves. They are usually very stable, and track in a straight line very well. A creek boat is designed for tight, steep, technical drops, they have more rocker so you can turn on a dime and boof with ease, they have more volume to resurface after dropping a waterfall, they have more safety features to aid in self and team rescue situations. They are really designed more with class V in mind, because you don't really need all these features on I - III (generally speaking), but they won't hurt you any on easier water.

As for your remark about playboats being for surfing in the ocean, they are actually used more for surfing in rivers and for running rivers. Most people will paddle playboats on the bigger water class III and IV runs, because that's where all the good surf waves and holes are. To decide which boat is right for you, take the advice of others and take a class. Then demo every boat you've sat in that feals comfortable to you. Then you'll be able to make the decision of which boat you want.
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Old 04-26-2007   #6
 
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Boats

Demo demo demo demo

This will help determine what you really like to do. You may find once you get to surfing that you really dig it and want to start playing all the time.

Take me for example, I just bought a Dagger Rx last year after a long lay off from kayaking.The Rx is billed as a play boat with down river capability. I figured getting back into the sport I would spend most of my time at the play parks getting comfortable again. But I still wanted a boat I felt comfortable in doing a trip or 2 down river. So I bought the Rx. But now I am getting more confident I am looking to do more down river trips and I am jonesing for a pure down river boat. So I may end up with another boat or unloading this one and getting a different boat.
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Old 04-26-2007   #7
 
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Durango, Colorado
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demo demo demo...agree

Different boats are as different as, I dunno, cars. Every manufacture has their own take on outfitting and hull design. Outfitting is possible to change, but if you are paying the loot for a new one you should be able to find a boat that has the right hull design and outfitting.

Also ask yourself what you plan on doing with the boat. If you are going to paddle class III and below mostly, and don't ever plan on running gnar or playboating, then it really doesn't matter what you buy. I hear you can get a dancer pretty cheap these days. Any boat will let you learn the fundamentals, and develop a healthy opinion on what you like.

Based on your questions it sounds like you really need some profesional instruction. Rivers are much different than the ocean, and reading water should be taught, not self taught. Plus a bunch of dirtbags could use the work. So demo, and take lessons, and buy a some really sweet gear before the boat, unless of couse, you are in a different tax bracket than most ww boaters I know.

To sum up, I would buy really nice gear. Dry top, underlayers (depending on intended climate) river specific PFD, helmet, super comfy paddle. Wait to buy a deck and boat untill you have that stuff and have paddled at least a few boats. But make sure to have someone with you when you learn. Though I've not sea kayaked, I can say getting out a ww boat with a tight deck without your loop exposed can be a fatal error, easy to make as a rookie.

etc.
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Old 04-26-2007   #8
 
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Littleton, Colorado
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Easy...

River:


Creek:


Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydpiii View Post
I am new to WW - just wanting to get into it after flatwater with Wilderness Tsunami 140.

Looking at WaveSport Diesel as top, but open to others for both myself and my wife.
What is difference between Creeking and river Running?

I know there are different boats - better at one than the other - but what is the difference between a Creek (requiring a Creeker or creek boat) and a River - requiring a river runner?

I know Big water is basically a very big & wide river,
and Playboats are basically for like ocean surfing/playing (and some playboats for playing on waves on rivers creeks.

So, aside from that - what is diff between river-running and Creek-boating (in Kayaks)?

Thanks.
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Old 04-26-2007   #9
 
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Salida, Colorado
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the main difference between a creeker and river runner is that companies market a boat as a creek boat until they come out with a better model then the old creek boat becomes a river runner...

ok constructive answer...creek boats are not really good for anything but creeking. most people will find them sluggish and corky in a "river running" application. The Fun series by Jackson are great for all around fun on the river as is the Mamba by Dagger. Good luck and welcome to our sport.
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Old 04-26-2007   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Harvey View Post
the main difference between a creeker and river runner is that companies market a boat as a creek boat until they come out with a better model then the old creek boat becomes a river runner...

ok constructive answer...creek boats are not really good for anything but creeking. most people will find them sluggish and corky in a "river running" application. The Fun series by Jackson are great for all around fun on the river as is the Mamba by Dagger. Good luck and welcome to our sport.
Thanks!
And the Diesel or the Liquid Logic Lil Joe/Hoss?
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