BLM is at it again - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 01-25-2012   #1
 
aspen, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1957
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
BLM is at it again

Hello fellow boaters. Right now, it is dogs not allowed on certain sections of river, it is now the humans turn. The BLM ( namely a certain someone in kremmling ) is attempting to put commercial rafting companies out of business in colorado. They have a "new" policy now rasing per person insurance coverage from $600,000 to $1,000,000. What this means for people with the 600,000k policy use to pay about $2500 for the season will now have to pay approx. $14,000 each season. Smaller rafting companies can't afford this and will have to shut down or sell. I have only spoken with one company owner so far, he is selling for sure. There is zero justification for this "backdoor" move as I have been monitoring the BLM since 1996. This is not a result of multiple deaths and lawsuits on the river,this is just another BS move while they spend most of their time trying to cover their own ass with whatever crap they have delt out before.
. This will affect private boaters as well in the long run and what has started with Dog contraversy at westwater will get way bigger and more personal.....The BLM has to be brought to public attention and answer to the American public. We all have to keep pressure on them . Before long, they will sit at their little desk and computers, and still have a job ( maybe )..and hear stories of the mighty colorado river which is only for irrigation, not for recreation, and while all along. these BLM idiots. most have , never even been on the stretch of river they control,..if were are going to get rid of dogs....good..the BLM office will be empty.

ducksrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-26-2012   #2
 
, MA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 35
I'm not trying to make a statement either way about this, but I'm confused as to how a 40% increase in coverage requirement (600k->1000k) leads to a 560% increase in the premium (2.5k->14k)? This may just be how insurance companies work, but those numbers just don't seem to jive.

Thanks for the info.
Jones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012   #3
 
nicho's Avatar
 
North Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 442
Quote:
. This will affect private boaters as well in the long run and what has started with Dog contraversy at westwater will get way bigger and more personal.....The BLM has to be brought to public attention and answer to the American public. We all have to keep pressure on them .
I agree about keeping pressure on them and making them know we are out here. What are ways of doing this?
Also why does the BLM care about how much insurance a company has. You would think the state legislature would control this, not that that would likely be any better. Companies should have a grace period to comply and time frame to appeal. Also be involved in the process of deciding regulations that have such an impact on their companies. Maybe you can clarify a bit for the private boater how all this bs works.
nicho is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-26-2012   #4
no tengo
 
mania's Avatar
 
Baytopia, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1876
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,853
Have you looked into K&K for your outfitter liability insurance needs?
mania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012   #5
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 9
BLM Background Info

It is my opinion that accuarate information should be shared when the BLM bashing begins. Commercial Outfitters operating on BLM lands and waters are required to have a Special Recreation Permit. Part of each permit is a fee requirement and an insurance requirement. Congress has supported the initiation of recreation fees to recover some of the costs for managing lands, and to provide fair return to the public for making a profit off of public lands. The BLM and USFS have established the fees and insurance costs based on market rates and insurance rates.

The rates were updated in 2006. The insurance requirements clearly state that whitewater rafting falls under a "Moderate Risk" and therefore requires the $1,000,000 liability insurance. This insurance is in place to protect the Public's money from litigation against the government. For example, if an outfitter is accused of being negligent and responsible for injury to a participant, the BLM can be sued for its role in permitting that outfitter. The insurance rates have been established by the BLM at the D.C. level, not this one individual noted in the initial post.

In these situations it often look like the BLM is the bad guy, but the BLM does not aim to put people out of business. The folks who manage recreation permits are charged with protecting the public resource while provided for recreational opportunities. Much like maintaining a guide license or even a business license, meeting the requirements of a BLM permit is part of doing business.

There is quite a bit of information available to the public regarding BLM's permitting process. In fact, everything is available for public view and comment. Look here for more info: BLM Colorado | Recreation | Special Recreation Permits
thilkbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012   #6
 
dirtbagkayaker's Avatar
 
Bazzaro, Free
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,603
I am ok with guidles going under. It would sure be nice to see a bunch of used gear hit the market and drive prices down. I need a new groover. Also It would take the pressure off the river systems as well and make the rivers just that much more enjoyable for me!

1mil/person coverage doesn't seem unreasonable to me givin the craziness of our legel system.

I have supported the BLM in the past and I support this change as well.
__________________
Switching to mgtow saved 100% on thot insurance...
dirtbagkayaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012   #7
 
Glenwood Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2004
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 311
Thanks for writing this. Thilk here is right on. Also, $1,000,000 in insurance requirement is pretty standard elsewhere these days. All of my commercial leases require it, as do many of my contracts. I think what we are looking at is inflation, $600,000 isn't what it used to be. Also, $2,400 in insurance, come on! That's a steal, you should have known that wouldn't continue. I pay more than that to insurance a bunch of massage therapists!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thilkbone View Post
It is my opinion that accuarate information should be shared when the BLM bashing begins. Commercial Outfitters operating on BLM lands and waters are required to have a Special Recreation Permit. Part of each permit is a fee requirement and an insurance requirement. Congress has supported the initiation of recreation fees to recover some of the costs for managing lands, and to provide fair return to the public for making a profit off of public lands. The BLM and USFS have established the fees and insurance costs based on market rates and insurance rates.

The rates were updated in 2006. The insurance requirements clearly state that whitewater rafting falls under a "Moderate Risk" and therefore requires the $1,000,000 liability insurance. This insurance is in place to protect the Public's money from litigation against the government. For example, if an outfitter is accused of being negligent and responsible for injury to a participant, the BLM can be sued for its role in permitting that outfitter. The insurance rates have been established by the BLM at the D.C. level, not this one individual noted in the initial post.

In these situations it often look like the BLM is the bad guy, but the BLM does not aim to put people out of business. The folks who manage recreation permits are charged with protecting the public resource while provided for recreational opportunities. Much like maintaining a guide license or even a business license, meeting the requirements of a BLM permit is part of doing business.

There is quite a bit of information available to the public regarding BLM's permitting process. In fact, everything is available for public view and comment. Look here for more info: BLM Colorado | Recreation | Special Recreation Permits
eklars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012   #8
 
Riverton, Utah
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 343
I own 2 businesses, one that is outsourced IT and one that is surveillance systems. I am required to have $1M liability to do any work with any government agency and with most larger companies that contract me. Its pretty standard. Been that way for 6-7 years now.

DanCan
DanCan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012   #9
 
-, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1994
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 107
Thank you Thilkbone for providing an accurate statement regarding the situation up there. It is obvious that the OP has an axe to grind and has a very passionate and biased regarding this issue. I support his right to vent, but I also am grateful when the truth is told.

I have a gut feeling that the BLM does not have a secret desire to destroy boating in Colorado.....
heytat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2012   #10
 
aspen, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1957
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 44
ok....seems like you all are misinformed and you continue to keep your heads up your asses..I do not own a raft company nor do i guide here and never will. I have several friends that are out of business because of the BLM on whatever level, local or DC..BLM changed their rules to bring the insurance rates up and devistate the small companies. You say it is to cover cost. I would love to see any reports of a commercial passenger sueing the BLM from a result of a rafting accident on the upper Colorado river..in my 35 years runnign the river..never heard of it. You boaters all sit back and defend the BLM other crap you know nothing about. you are right the math on the insurance does not add up. so call the insurance co while you all boat your little selves on a hopefully sunny weekend....and if all outfitters go under. so will access for private boaters like me.......all of you that think one million dollares insurance to run pumphouse is a good idea you must be outta of your minds. As for Mr. dirtbag kayaker. you have a fitting name..i am more than happy to meet you anytime .i have some gear for your mamma.
.as for BLM...
i'm going to be on you like stink on shit..with you..
ducksrus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
BLM Assistance BLM_CRVFO Whitewater Kayaking 10 10-08-2010 08:37 AM
BLM Free Days stribtw Whitewater Kayaking 0 06-03-2010 02:24 PM
BLM sites down? Dave Frank Whitewater Kayaking 8 03-23-2004 11:40 PM

» Classified Ads
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.