Bad people in other countries - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 12-02-2018   #1
 
Join Date: May 2018
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Bad people in other countries

When ever you guys travel to white water kayak or raft in places like South America, Africa, or some place like those do you have to worry about bad people like terrorists or drug cartels, or do they leave you alone. Cause one day I when I’m skilled enough I’d like to paddle the Zambezi before it gets dammed up and I’d like to do the futala fu in Chile.

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Old 12-02-2018   #2
 
Join Date: May 2005
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They pretty much only mess with riverboarders
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Old 12-02-2018   #3
 
thornton, Colorado
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Some places are so bad, that when you get off the airplane they check you for guns and knives and if you don't have any, they issue you a couple. One place that comes to mind is Newark New Jersey, but they do have some of the best bagels in country.
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Old 12-02-2018   #4
 
Denver, Colorado
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It depends on a lot of variables.Chile is pretty safe i believe.They are used to boaters on the Zambezi ,so besides hippos and crocs ,your main danger is pretty crime off the river.If you go somewhere like Somalia, or until recently Columbia,kidnapping is a potential problem.If you are running some remote river in a developing country the locals may suspect you of scouting for some mining or dam building company and apprehend you.This happened on Rio Copon Gt.a few years ago.Bandits were attacking rafters on Rio Usumascinta in the past.
I want to explore the upr.Chiquibul river in Guatemala near the border with Belize.The run has been done a couple times and is mostly 2-3 with some 4 and a couple portages.You have to carry in an hour or two.The river is a tributary of the Mopan,which I have run many times.I have followed the explorations of Rocky Contos for years.He will run a river from it's headwaters all the way to the sea,V to flatwater.This idea appeals to me ,and either the Chiquibul-Mopan-Belize River or the Chiyu-Gracias a Dios-SanPedro-Sarstun are basically the options i have narrowed it down to without getting in over my head whitewater wise.Both of these involve traversing Guat-BZ border areas where there are serious disputes.The Guats don't acknowledge/respect the border.They claim Bz is part of Guatemala.There is transborder:illegal gold mining,poaching plants and animals,looting archeological sites,peasant farmers squatting on the Belize side,and human and drug trafficking.Belize has too little law enforcement resources to do anything about it.The people who are doing this usually live in the villages just inside Guatemala,like the one you use to access the put in trail. for the Chuiquibul.I would hesitate to hike in here alone and come across these folks but if you hired some porters to guide you in and carry your stuff you would probably be fine once on the river.But it is dangerous.
I dreamed of exploring Michoacan in the past.Rocky did few rivers there.I googled one of the rivers he did for pics and a bunch of images of decapitated bodies came up.There are State Dept.warnings against travel in Michoacan,Guerrero,Sinaloa,and couple of other states.I saw where some guy on team Jackson bagged some 1D's in Michoacan a few years ago anyway.There are reports of tourists getting caught up in cartel violence,but it is rare.Compare a handful of incidents to the millions of people who visit Mexico annually.Outside of border areas and drug production areas you are still relatively safe.If tourism is an important part of the local economy all the better.
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Old 12-02-2018   #5
 
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Try to pass yourself off as Canadian by saying “eh” after each sentence or two. Or claim to be from the Uk, Norway, England etc...

Stay out of America and you should be fine.

Cayo2 gave great advice, I’m just clowning around, sort of...
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Old 12-02-2018   #6
 
FC, Colorado
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Watch out for the drug cartels in White Salmon washington.
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Old 12-03-2018   #7
 
Denver, Colorado
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You could just go to a 'safe' country for boating


Canada
Costa Rica
New Zealand
Chile
France
Norway
Ecuador. ???
Iceland
Most of Europe

Usually there is less crime and friendlier people in small villages than big cities and tourist traps
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Old 12-03-2018   #8
 
BV, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cayo 2 View Post
I want to explore the upr.Chiquibul river in Guatemala near the border with Belize.The run has been done a couple times and is mostly 2-3 with some 4 and a couple portages.You have to carry in an hour or two.The river is a tributary of the Mopan,which I have run many times.I have followed the explorations of Rocky Contos for years.He will run a river from it's headwaters all the way to the sea,V to flatwater.This idea appeals to me ,and either the Chiquibul-Mopan-Belize River or the Chiyu-Gracias a Dios-SanPedro-Sarstun are basically the options i have narrowed it down to without getting in over my head whitewater wise.Both of these involve traversing Guat-BZ border areas where there are serious disputes.The Guats don't acknowledge/respect the border.They claim Bz is part of Guatemala.There is transborder:illegal gold mining,poaching plants and animals,looting archeological sites,peasant farmers squatting on the Belize side,and human and drug trafficking.Belize has too little law enforcement resources to do anything about it.The people who are doing this usually live in the villages just inside Guatemala,like the one you use to access the put in trail. for the Chuiquibul.I would hesitate to hike in here alone and come across these folks but if you hired some porters to guide you in and carry your stuff you would probably be fine once on the river.But it is dangerous.
Sorry, this is a thread hijack...
I'm interested in this area. Do you know of any online info? When you've paddled the Mopan did you have your own boat? Do you know of any outfitters in that area? Do you know anything about Columbia Branch-Rio Grande in Belize or other source to sea stuff? Sorry for all the questions but not many folks have info on this area. Headed back to Belize for the third time this Feb.
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Old 12-03-2018   #9
 
Denver, Colorado
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Yeah Phil, happy to answer. Online there is Mayanwhitewater.com. but the write ups are only partial since Greg's book "Mayan Whitewater:Chiapas&Belize" came out.I'm not sure if you can get it on Amazon. CKS? The Mopan is not that exciting,Greg says II. I'd say it is a little better than that,some 2+/3- at strong medium flows.Mostly it is just reliable and convenient to the San Ignacio area.There are 3 (or 1 longass) runs in Belize
P 1) Benque to Clarrissa Falls-put in along the Western Highway somewhere to your liking between Benque and SuccotzTake out at Clarrissa Falls Resort.No hassles.1st half of fun has all the rapids except Clarrissa 3-..Cable on car ferry to Xunantunich ruins to limbo or portage.Ruins are 15 minute hike.5k?

2)Arenal to Benque-starts where river enters Belize runs down to the first run ,is slightly better whitewater and more scenic 10k? but the river crosses back into Guatemala ,through the town of Melchor, and right by the border stations.I have done it twice like 15 years ago.Do not know how the tensions between countries might affect hassle free passage.

3)Clarrissa to Branch Mouth- last 19 km to confluence with Macal and beginning of the Belize river...not much to recommend this section...torturously slow at low water...jungle and remote in parts..ranchland elsewhere...rapid on approach to Bullet Tree Falls...have not run the last 4km...think the actual Bullet Tree Falls Rapid is just downstream of road/takeout...possible playspot by resort at takeout I


The runs on the Mopan in Guat. below the Chiquibul confluence and several sections of the Chiquibul between that and the upr.run are somewhat better whitewater .....you can also run at least 15km? Above the confluence on the Guat.Mopan..man adding up this mileage+175 miles from SI Ito the Caribbean is a marathon..I would be breaking it up and just starting the next section from where I left off , not camping the whole way like Rocky.

Yeah I had my own boat...none to rent back then....There is a guy who used to guide for Slickrock who lives in Succotz and has some kayaks he may sometimes rent.his name is Neri Chi..his number is in the guidebook somewhere ...I'll find it for you.

The other option Chahal-Chiyu-GAD-SP-Sarstoon is much better whitewater and considerably shorter...you could start o on one of 3 sections of the Chahal ,the upr.has a little V?- mid II- lwr. IV or on the Upr.Chiyu III then easier water to Las Conchas ( upstream of the Chahal confluence)..Las Conchas is sort of the Cascadas Micos of Guatemala, a set of concentrated travertine drops including a 30 footer that has been run,the same ledge has other lines that are not as tall and less volume ,so relatively easy waterfalls...then you have a good 3 run with some decent sized ledges down to a lodge ,Oasis Las Conchas ,that is supposed to be awesome and reasonably priced.....below here are more spaced out drops with some wood issues ..you can take out before or continue into the Gracias a Dios river which is 3+/4- travertine semi roadside i think in parts...then this river gets funky mid way thru G A D it divides into channels and becomes essentially two separate rivers around a big ( 20km? ) island.the San Pedro Branch is also 3+...after this I am pretty sure it is flat to the sea...The 2 branches come back together again after the highway takeout and form the Sarstun River ,the southern border of Belize...this part is serious nature float and world class fishery.......
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Old 12-03-2018   #10
 
BV, CO
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Awesome info Cayo. Thanks. That gives me a lot of homework. Any info on the Grande?
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