0 degree offset/feather??????? - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 12-12-2008   #1
 
Dekalb, Texas
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0 degree offset/feather???????

Ive been paddle shopping, and have decided to stay with the player. My question to you all, is have many of you had any experience with a 0 degree?? Have you actually paddled with one, or what exactly do you think about them for whitewater paddling... i know for playboating it seems like it would be awesome... but im not sure for riverrunning.....

anyways im seriously thinking about trying one out, but i would like to get some input from some fellow boaters..... also, ive been reading lots of reviews and stories... here is a good one off of the noc site....


Why Chris Chose A Zero Degree Paddle:

Twenty years ago 90 degree paddles were prominent. Ten years ago the introduction of 60 and 45 degree paddles introduced a reformation to the sport of kayaking. Before all of these offsets (feather) were available there was only one. Zero degree paddles were the first types of paddles used. The reason for the introduction of a paddle feather was for the blade to slice through the wind. Some people feel that it is better ergonomics to use an offset. However, several people, myself included, feel a zero degree paddle simplifies strokes and rolling and reduces stress on your wrists and forearms. Unless you are constantly paddling with a headwind you will benefit from no offset.

A zero degree paddle reduces stress on your wrist by alleviating any "paddle twist" that normally happens from proper paddling technique with an offset. Zero offset also creates two "control hands" instead of just one, allowing your bottom hand during a stroke to be the "control" and the top hand to relax. Overall these two characteristics reduce "paddle fatigue."

Offset paddles inadvertently created what we call an "offside" in kayaking. Think of it this way, the paddle becomes both right and left hand controlled because there is no need for rolling of the wrists. So strokes, rolls, braces, are done the exact same on both sides. Rolling becomes easier because you have two blades with surface tension as opposed to one with and one without. This obviously makes playboating maneuvers easier as well. I have found that overall my daily boating has become more efficient, more simple, and overall more enjoyable.

Zero Degree Review by
Chris Wing

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Old 12-13-2008   #2
adm
 
Boulder, Colorado
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I agree with Chris 100%. 0-15 degree is the only way to go.
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Old 12-13-2008   #3
 
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I will likely never go back to an offset paddle. I use my 0degree Player for all boating, play, creek, and general river-running. In fact I'm on me 3rd 0degree. I've been paddling with them for about 4 seasons now. I love it: no index hand, neutral wrist position etc.

But this topic has been hammered a few times on the Buzz. Do a thread search and you should find some good input for both sides of the fence.
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Old 12-13-2008   #4
 
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[quote=RealitySheriff;121608]I will likely never go back to an offset paddle. I use my 0degree Player for all boating, play, creek, and general river-running. I love it: no index hand, neutral wrist position etc.

You better boat this year buddy! Give a heads up if you come down to NM for the holidays. Atom...
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Old 12-15-2008   #5
 
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While the topic has been hammered, it hasn't been hammered enough. The fact that zero degree paddles must still be special ordered means the people in the industry just aren't paddeling enough on a regular basis. THERE'S NO REASON TO HAVE AN OFFSET!

We aren't Eskimos who paddle in the wind 365 days a year. An offset does nothing but require movement that's not necessary. Offsets affect everything in a negative way from rolling, (you must cock your wrists if you have an offset,) to paddeling (you must let the paddle slide through your weak hand when you paddle with an offset.)

None of that's necessary if you have a zero degree paddle. Why there are still offset paddles is beyond me. Maybe some people prefer them because that's all they've ever paddled with, but there's simply no advantage to having an offset unless you're sea kayaking.
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Old 12-15-2008   #6
 
Littleton, Colorado
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welllll--I was once also all about a zero degree feather, insisting that whitewater paddling and playboating paddle strokes were 100% symmetrical, and there was therefore absolutely no need for any feather, since there's no wind resistance to factor in (99.9% of the time--and not counting westwater paddle out).

--however, after much thought on this (search previous threads), I've come to realize that, if you always control the paddle with one hand (i.e. firm grip with right hand, looser grip with left), then a *slight* feather angle is actually beneficial, in that it compensates for the slight blade rotation induced when switching from control side stroke to "loose" side stroke (it's true, check it out)

That said however, **IF** you don't control with one hand only (which is often the de facto case in chaotic whitewater paddleing, as opposed to repetitive flatwater paddling), then I would agree with Hotchkiss

I realized I do tend to control somewhat with my right hand, and in my experience, 15 degrees is plenty--30 degrees is, ehh, ok, but def. prefer 15

I had a 15 degree player and loved it until it broke in half this summer--still pissed about that...

...anyway, the key was and is availability--back then I was looking for a zero degree, but CKS had a killer deal on a 15 degree, so i snatched it up. After that one broke, I couldn't find another 15 degree. And since I didn't want to pay/wait for a special order, I just bought a 30 degree on sale at Confluence--

all that said however, for angles of 30 degrees or less, I think this is all spitting hairs--you pretty much get used to what you have--which is why I went with 30. More that 30 degrees though on whitewater IMHO is awkard and unnecesary...
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Old 12-15-2008   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay H View Post
--however, after much thought on this (search previous threads), I've come to realize that, if you always control the paddle with one hand (i.e. firm grip with right hand, looser grip with left), then a *slight* feather angle is actually beneficial, in that it compensates for the slight blade rotation induced when switching from control side stroke to "loose" side stroke (it's true, check it out)
I agree with this and just sold my 15 degree paddle when I left Nepal. I took it a step further toward where I think my true ergonomics are and ordered a 10 degree. Should be here before christmas!

MR
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Old 12-15-2008   #8
 
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Sounds like the two of you have the same complaint. How can the industry be so far behind the times
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Old 12-15-2008   #9
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thumbs up on low degree, I'll never go back to 45!
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Old 12-15-2008   #10
 
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The industry is behind because....

if sales are keeping pace, why change things up? Some of the best innovations have come from start ups that have been plagued by quality issues (Waterstick) that seems to have lead to their demise?

Waterstick had 30 degree offsets as standard back in 2001 and later a 12 degree offset as standard. H2O (waterstick reborn) offers a 12 degree offset as standard now.

H2O also offers a GREAT rubberized grip - no need to wax up the ol shaft. Think we'll see that anytime soon with Werner? They may be the UBER standard for Quality, but they're WAY slow to innovate (other than longer paddles (SUP) and funky colors).
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