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Sun/ Rain Shelter

24K views 71 replies 28 participants last post by  daledevon 
#1 ·
Need to come up with a new camp shelter. Any opinions on what works best. My canvas is to tattered and moldy to go again.
 
#3 ·
This is the one I use. My group is usually 10 peeps or less, so it's a good size. 12 X 15. Well made, light weight, made in the USA. Marty at Wilderness Logics does good work and he'll get the tarp to you fast.
WILD RIVER GUIDE TATP

I have also used the Noah's tarp. It's a pretty good tarp for the price, but I didn't care for the way it pitches. Never good get it taut because of it's shape.
 
#4 ·
I second Noah's Tarp. It's small, cheap, easy to pitch with a few guys and premade ropes. In our group we carry 3 of those tarps and pitch to our needs. Usually one for the kitchen and two for sitting area. You can use 6 oars for 2 tarps easily.

When we got caught in a huge wind storm on Lodore, our tarps stood up like a champ.

Kelty Noah's Tarp - 12' x 12' - Free Shipping at REI.com

Or 16'x16' http://www.campmor.com/kelty-noah-39-s-tarp-16-1.shtml?source=CI&ci_sku=28876&ci_gpa=pla&ci_kw=

I've seen the "real" river tarps and I can't justify to pay 3x or 4x the price of Noah's.
 
#5 ·
Another vote for Noah's. I had a 16x16 up all weekend on the rogue (rv camping) and it held up great. Priced perfectly so as to draw you away from the super spendy stuff and you feel so good about the money you save that you ponder and eventually order a second one. And that is still half of what you pay for a "rafting tarp". Kelty makes very good inexpensive (not cheap IMO) equipment and I have no doubt that this will last for many years. Did I mention all the money I have left in my pocket? :)
 
#6 ·
A lot of years ago, for some reason I bit the bullet and purchased the standard size Moss Parawing and a Moss Outfitter Wing.

Parawing makes a excellent kitchen and Outfitter a group meeting place out of the rain.

Both tarps still holding on and while stained and smell like bacon grease from too many breakfast stoves - get the job done.

Sure wish someone would manufacture a current version with the durability Mr Moss did.
 
#7 ·
Depends....from personal experience I would say:

The Noahs tarp is great price and a good fit if you don't do fringe season trips and don't expect to sit under a tarp for multiple days in the rain. Somewhere around day 2 of 6 straight days of rain our Noah's showed its inadequacy for a group of 7 in the cold. The design was just weak after that point and we had to use rain jackets under the tarp.

We sucked it up after that experience and bought the MSR Zing and have been happy with its performance and setup so far. I can put it up alone in less than 5 minutes. Has held up to wind, rain and sun for 2 years quite well.

If you want maximum shade you might consider a darker tarp that is less transparent than either of the two mentioned above. I can see that being a benefit to the NRS shelter, but that is only from photos.

Also, I can't recommend having 4-6 of the Toughstakes for windy days in desert sand (my home turf) . We have tried just about everything else and they just blowout at some point. Haven't had a failure since buying these. Only downside....gotta watch the toes and mark 'em with something.

Phillip
 
#13 ·
After years of making do with hardware store tarps, we splurged and bought an MSR Zing last year. Love it, love it! Lightweight, fast and easy to pitch using oars and provided poles, and it holds up well in wind if oriented correctly. On our first raft trip with it, we had rain 14 out of 16 days and it was a godsend! I recommend buying a bunch of military 12" aluminum tent stakes - they gave a good solid anchor. Well worth the money.
 
#14 ·
3rd vote for the Zing. It's been bomber. Did a Hells canyon trip where the fire was on one corner, the kitchen another side, and the 3 tents opened a vestibule under the tarp.

Also held up to about 3" of rain in 2 days on the Molalla with zero issues. Light, bomber, well shaped.

If local to SEA, the winter Cascade Designs garage sale is a great way to get one cheap. Think mine cost $40 at the event, without poles. But well worth retail, or that 20% off REI coupon.
 
#15 ·
I have a lot of faith in the Tuff Stakes on regular ground.

But one time on a San Juan evening I was under the big tarp cooking supper with a bud. We were on sand but thought the tuff stakes were solid. suddenly a wind storm blowing up river took out all the tuff stakes on that side. Outfitter went up and over taking down the tables. We happened to be cooking pork chops in a big cast iron fry pan. Both of us struggling to keep from total disaster. No mess but close. we dug down into the sand and put in deadmen. Wind died down but later that night the real deal thunder boomer storm with rain happened. Tarp did not blow down with the buried dead men.

After that I went to the largest orange stakes Home Depot has for the sand spots, still use the tuff stakes in regular soil.
 
#17 ·
I am just jealous that you boat in places with "regular soil". Not sure I have touched such stuff in years while boating. Even on the Main last summer we had almost exclusively sand camps.

I think we all problem solve differently. I learned quick to deadman most of our anchors in the desert. I actually prefer digging the Toughstakes deeper into the ground then most folks, but like I said its rare we have much else then compacted sand. Been in some epic winds with success.

Will likely try the stakes Kazak and you are referencing. I am slowly building up a full collection of Toughstakes but I am always willing to save $$ and experiment.

Tarpology can have a tough learning curve but I love it.

Phillip
 
#19 ·
I had no problem with workmanship or durability with my 12X12 Noah. I just hated it's design. I like the 12X15 rectangle shape for better space and water shedding ability. If you are using this tarp for shade, you definitely want a darker color. The shade and temperature difference between my light grey Noah and my new green tarp is quite noticeable.
 
#20 ·
If you are using this tarp for shade, you definitely want a darker color. The shade and temperature difference between my light grey Noah and my new green tarp is quite noticeable.
Wouldn't it just be the difference in translucence/opaqueness? I would think the lighter would be cooler otherwise.
 
#27 ·
#29 ·
I have a friend that has a clear tarp. It is EXCELLENT on spring MFS trips where we need rain protection, but don't want the darkness. I can't bring myself to spend so much for a rain fly, I don't know how you all do it but we just use tarps. I guess it helps that weekends on the Lochsa we use a popup awning, that is bomber and easy to set up. So fighting tarps isn't something we do all that often and their shape is so darn good. I run a support rope diagonally, and then just tip the other corners down a bit. It seems to work well, and when the grommets start to fail I make a big knot that serves to replace the grommet for a while.

Now that Wild River tarp looks excellent, but still a bit $$$ for our use.
 
#35 ·
Yep. Not an inexpensive tarp, but not as much as some. The fact that I can pack it in a stuff sack to the size of a nerf football and it weighs 29 oz. is nice. Here's some pics of my two tarps on the Main Salmon year before last. The green is the Wild River 12 X 15, and the brown one is the Big Daddy (12 X ?, can't remember). Both are made by Wilderness Logics in North Carolina. After years of using the Noah and not loving it, I sent my specs & what I needed to Marty at WL and he made the Wild River for me. The Big Daddy is my hammock camping tarp. The two worked out great on the MS. Kitchen shade, lounge area shade.

I agree about a lighter colored tarp for rainy trips. Hard to choose between grey for more light & green for more shade. More shade won out. Thanks to M3mphis who answered the question about transparency & color for me. It's both with the light weight silnylon tarps.

I'm not totally knocking the Noah. It's probably the best tarp for it's price. I just didn't love it. It bugged me that I never could eliminate the floppiness so it didn't collect water. I never had a Noah fall apart. Did see the beloved Moss Outfitter Wing shredded on the San Juan. That was sad. That tarp saw many years of service.
 
#34 ·
tarp rigging is indeed an art form.

Video: Using Continuous Ridge Lines with a Tarp | The Ultimate Hang

Here's a system I've adapted to large tarps. Sure, it takes a 70' coil of cord, but there are some major advantages. One, it can moved easily, and re-tensioned quickly. Two, the line under the tarp helps support large tarps in the wind. Three, any trees you can use are better anchors and lesser hazards than poles/lines/stakes you can walk into. sorry sandbar campers ;)

tarps must be taut and shaped to spill wind and rain or they will require constant attention... a reliable flexible system makes it less of a chore. prussiks and small clip biners can really eliminate futzing with knots.
 
#66 ·
tarp rigging is indeed an art form.

Video: Using Continuous Ridge Lines with a Tarp | The Ultimate Hang

Here's a system I've adapted to large tarps. Sure, it takes a 70' coil of cord, but there are some major advantages. One, it can moved easily, and re-tensioned quickly. Two, the line under the tarp helps support large tarps in the wind. Three, any trees you can use are better anchors and lesser hazards than poles/lines/stakes you can walk into. sorry sandbar campers ;)

tarps must be taut and shaped to spill wind and rain or they will require constant attention... a reliable flexible system makes it less of a chore. prussiks and small clip biners can really eliminate futzing with knots.
I don't understand why he didn't have the ridge line UNDER the tarp as you point out. That takes so much stress off the tie-ins. There is an advantage to having a ridge line that is separate from the tarp attachment and underneath verses his method. Redundancy.

Also, those plastic (delrin or other) D rings are good for one short use in a serious wind. This guys methods are clever but are meant for smaller tarps over a hammock.

Its a little bit of weight but for rafting I prefer the parachute cord that used to be called 550. Now known as type III.

========

This is a bit annal but I sew snug sliding pieces of different lighter colored webbings, (tapes) or scrap materials to form mini flags on the corner tie down ropes. Reduced tripping. That can be a bigger stress than the wind.
 
#37 ·
Slight deviation. The tarp info is good but I can't stop staring at that wonderful campsite. Is it between Carey Creek and Spring Bar? I see a road across the river.
Good eye! It is between Carey Creek & Spring Bar. We decided to do an extra day that trip. This actually turned out to be a great camp. The traffic across the river wasn't that big of a deal, and the beach was awesome. Our kids had a great time Paco pad surfing in the eddy.
 
#38 ·
Heavy Duty Blue / Silver Tarp 12 ft x 16 ft (3.6 m x 4.8 m) - Maximum Weather Protection - U.V.I. Coating for Outdoor Use - Amazon.com

Silver reflects the sun, blue side makes it dark and cool, it's waterproof, and you can find it at your local hardware store (or Amazon for $16!) All you need is some string and some oars (or trees).

Can someone please explain to me why the NRS riverwing (NRS River Wing at nrs.com) costs $400? It's a simple sheet of nylon! Sure it comes with poles and straps, but really... it can't cost much more than about $30 to manufacture. You can buy a good four-season tent from a reputable manufacturer for less! Or a great cooler, or a set of decent oars, or two high end PFD's,or... (I could go on and on) for the same price-- all of which take a significantly more time and materials to manufacture. Even the price of the Noah's tarp seems too high for what it is.
 
#39 ·
Lived under one of those for about a year. Not bad if the wind is tame and actually perfect in snow. That said, they plain suck for durability. Corners blow out and I would be a very happy man never to do that rock/ghost wrap thing ever again in my life. I would never bring one on a river trip again (did my first 1-2 years).

Per the cost....I use to think the same thing. Then I tried to make my own gear for a while. I made a bivy sack once. Learned real quick how difficult and expensive it it to make modern gear.

40d sil nylon is $4-5 per 1/2 yard (@ 50 inches).......thats closer to a $100-125 in materials alone for me to begin (really spend time under a good tarp and look at how many cuts there have to be). Throw is 100 feet of high quality cord that comes to like $30 or more for me to purchase alone. $100 in poles. So as I see it even if I could make this tarp, which I can't, it would cost me roughly $250 in materials.

My friends make a ton of gear and I have yet to have a friend even attempt a homemade tarp. Just too many caveats.

The modern tarps serve a purpose for some of us well worth the cost. Reinforced corners with stow pockets that can be used with oars and various materials; cat-cut which for me has been far superior to anything else; factory taped seams which means I don't need to spend hours and more $$$ sealing them myself; etc, etc.

Overall I have no problem giving a company that designs a quality piece of gear an extra $125-175. I have some friends that work the cottage industry and I can tell how much time goes into R&D for niche products. MSR and NRS are by no means cottage but I have no problem giving $$ for gear that will last me a long while. Not to mention, I got tired of sending cheap tarps off to the landfill, though at least the last 2 cover my wood pile for winter heat now.

To each their own. I know plenty of folks who still camp with those Walmart specials, I know folks who only support cottage companies (likely be my next tent purchase) and I know plenty of folks like myself who are comfortable with the $$ of one of these specialty tarps. Different priorities (ironically, I have an 18 foot raft I got for $600 which I love to death).

Phillip
 
#43 ·
Seattle Fabrics is who he bought it from. A coated nylon of some sort.

Sunbrella : Grommets : Clear Vinyl : Marine Vinyl : Outdoor Fabrics : Seattlefabrics.com

He sewed a 1'' webbing around the perimeter w/ loops at various places. It's bomber for sure. He also has an industrial sewing machine. Pretty handy to have.

We also have a couple of the Noah's Tarps. They are a little tough to get taught unless you are rigging them from opposing corners which isn't always the way you'd really like to have them.
 
#44 ·
That's the basic problem with the Noah tarps. They have a very defined catenary cut and are really designed to be pitched as a diamond, not a rectangle.

Man you're lucky to have a neighbor with an industrial sewing machine .....or the more manly term.....thread injector. I'd be buying lots of fabric and hitting them up for some projects. Like a tarp & a raft cover.
 
#46 ·
I love my tarp, it's the first thing that gets set up. I've also noticed that a good tarp can make or break a trip, especially when it rains every day on your Middle Fork trip. On trips like that, you'll be glad for the investment. I decided to build my own because I couldn't afford one, but as stated, it still costs a bit to build a quality piece of equipment. I also wanted a bigger one than was offered for sale at the time. My tarp is a "wing" type and the size is 25'x18'.
 

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