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Old 02-26-2009   #1
raftus's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Shredder vs. Small Raft for waterfalls

What do you guys/gals think is better for running waterfalls, a shredder or a small raft like a Spyder/Puma?

I love the light weight of the shredder, but I am wondering if it will submarine and get caught in holes more often.

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Old 02-26-2009   #2
Highlands Ranch, CO Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 482
Shredder is the way to go, I have a stinger which is a different version of a shredder. I have run a few smallish waterfalls with good success, these are all in the 10-15 ft range.

When it has subbed out it has always just popped out.

Plus the shredder is going to have a faster hull speed which on tighter creeks is a huge plus to make your line.

I do know folks that have puma's and run some tight runs but I prefer the shredder for the stability and ability to straddle small rocks.

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Old 02-26-2009   #3
Fort Collins, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 213
I would agree with stigin. I have a paddlecat (hysides version of shredder) and love it. I have not run any specific waterfalls with it...but did manage to get down lower narrows on the Poudre right side up (could have definatly been a different story in a raft).

Since there is less surface under the boat they seem to punch through holes easier than most rafts.

You can throw in a good boof stroke at the top of the drop and by the time your blade leaves the water the bow of the boat is already through the hole.

Plus you get the advantage of the mystery cat moves over rocks.

I have friends that have mini-me's and personally feel much more comfortable running bigger lines in the shredder than in their boats.
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Old 02-26-2009   #4
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Eastern Slope, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1980
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,404
Originally Posted by teleboater5.13 View Post
I have friends that have mini-me's and personally feel much more comfortable running bigger lines in the shredder than in their boats.
No way. A mini me is more stable because of the surface to water factor. It will also rise up quicker because of it's higher volume. Also if you drop a waterfall in a paddle cat you have much less inflated area to bounce your face off of. That's why you look like you do Jon.
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Old 02-26-2009   #5
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 169
As someone who has owned both a Puma and a Shredder, I totally disagree. Puma is way better for dig drops. Shredder is too floppy. Remember, Danny sticks with the no dudes on tubes rule and paddles his Stinger S1 style. All the big drop raft footage is in a Puma for a reason.
if i'd known it was gonna be that kinda party...
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Old 02-26-2009   #6
Fort Collins, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 213
Randal I dont think I can count the number of time I have pulled mini-me swimmers out of the river at the base of rapids in my shredder (I think some of them were yours, no )

True, most of the big drop rafting footage is in rafts...but check this out.

Crazy Russians!!!!!

(If the link did not work just type in Russia extreme rafting @ youtube)
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Old 02-26-2009   #7
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Leadvillian, Colorado
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 381
I'd have to say raft. Less chance of frontendering and a floor to fall into instead of the hole.
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Old 02-26-2009   #8
Snowhere's Avatar
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 93
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 844
Those ruskies got worked quite a bit!
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Old 05-13-2009   #9
Eagle, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1983
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 17
I have over 45 seasons(year round, 11 countries) as a raft guide - from 9' rafts to 47' motor rigs - 100% the shredder is my boat of choice for my private trips
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Old 07-10-2009   #10
Fort Collins, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1
I think the issue here is weight, not surface area. Shredders are light while rafts are heavier. If you look at the Russian video, those guys are getting worked by flipping over face first, likely because their own body mass (and center of gravity) is becoming the main consideration once their vessel becomes vertical. They also seem to be somehow strapped to the top of their pontoons, with all of their body mass atop the pontoon as opposed to a shredder where your legs (and the associated mass of your legs) are inside the shredder and at the midline, or lower, of the shredders pontoons.
Why don't we start running water falls in little rafts and shredders with the same crew in each and do a little experiment? The Pepsi-Challenge of vertical boating...

Also, did you see those pfd pants those Russians were wearing? When is RMA going to start selling those?

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