Rowing effort question - Page 3 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 08-03-2016   #21
 
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dafewillis View Post
It's an obvious question that's gotta be asked: was your buddy using his anchor in those runs?

We have a DRE San Juan frame, and there is an anchor built into it. It can fully stop you, of course, if it catches on something, but it can also slow you down considerably if it's out and just dragging bottom.

Didn't see anyone mention it, so thought I'd ask!
Nope. He has the anchor system, but no anchor yet mounted.

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Old 08-03-2016   #22
 
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Belgrade, Montana
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So, I think we've pinned down that your oars are at least a big part of the problem. I don't think flex or even balance will result in the kind of difference your seeing, but length will. Balance will wear you out faster but you'd be right there with him for a while. Same with flex, you might get a little more snap out of the end of your stroke, but not a night and day difference. Don't get me wrong, I think oars are very important piece of equipment and I highly recommend upgrading your sticks when the $ is available (not just longer, but better and balanced). They're your connection to the water - the difference is like casting an Ugly Stick vs. a Sage.

As codycleave said, the frame could also be an issue, but I'd think you would notice if it were sloppy....maybe you wouldn't but I bet your buddies would. At any rate that is something you can pay attention to in the future.

I looked at the outlaw and it should row pretty well. The bottom looks clean - tubes are the same diameter as other NRS 13'ers so I doubt the boat it's self has much to do with it. Certainly not the material difference. The only thing I can't tell from the web site is where the floor attaches. Does it stick down below the tubes or is it set up higher than the other boats - that could make a difference...especially if it were significantly lower.

That leaves balance and set up, which are difficult for any of us to evaluate without pictures. If you post a few with you sitting in your boat with oars and such (in the water would be best), I bet folks can start finding set up issues. Balance wise, as read-n-run says, flat is best but almost impossible to do consistently in a fishing rig. Oh, actually you didn't mention how many folks you each have. Were you fishing two, one up front one in the back? or just one up front?. The set up on the stern can make a big difference too. If the guy in back is the biggest and he's lazily leaning into the back of the chair, the chair's waaayyy back at the very end, etc. - you can get way out of balance and actually have water hitting the e-piece dead on (seen this way too much) - that acts like another oar pushing you down stream. I try to balance slightly weight forward, that way if I do get more weight in the back I'm less likely to be loaded ass heavy.

I'd say the first thing to do, is trade oars with your buddy for a while (might not be very easy if you've been complaining alot) - or borrow someones 9'ers. Make sure you have a good foot brace (very hard to transfer power without a brace) and check your balance next time. Try not to change too many things at once though so you can learn what's working and what's not. That way you can fine tune your rig over time.

Good luck!
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Old 08-03-2016   #23
 
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Not to hijack this thread, but this same issue came up on a lower salmon trip from this past week. I was rowing a 14' NRS expedition, my buddy a maravia willowa 1.5 with drop stitch floor, both of us with 10' cataract oars, maybe 50 lb weight difference in load with my load being heavier. The biggest difference was he was carrying a small drag bag on the back with a cantaloupe and watermelon (smaller than the cantaloupe) and 3 beers. The bag was only submerged about 4" in the water. The issue was the maravia rowed and tracked horribly. Once we removed the drag bag the performance of the boat noticibly improved, but that wasn't until the last day. This was our first time rowing this boat and I was very disappointed. Thoughts? Is the I-beam floor the biggest reason for the performance difference? Maravia/Drop stitch floor users tell me what we did wrong.
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Old 08-03-2016   #24
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A drag bag can have a HUGE impact on performance. Nothing tracks like an NRS, if you know how to take advantage of the ribbed floor, it will do a lot of work for you. The times I've run a Maravia, it was just different, and I had to adapt my style of boating to a smooth floor. Great boats though.
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Old 08-04-2016   #25
 
East of the Pine beatle, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatch_angler View Post
Not to hijack this thread, but this same issue came up on a lower salmon trip from this past week. I was rowing a 14' NRS expedition, my buddy a maravia willowa 1.5 with drop stitch floor, both of us with 10' cataract oars, maybe 50 lb weight difference in load with my load being heavier. The biggest difference was he was carrying a small drag bag on the back with a cantaloupe and watermelon (smaller than the cantaloupe) and 3 beers. The bag was only submerged about 4" in the water. The issue was the maravia rowed and tracked horribly. Once we removed the drag bag the performance of the boat noticibly improved, but that wasn't until the last day. This was our first time rowing this boat and I was very disappointed. Thoughts? Is the I-beam floor the biggest reason for the performance difference? Maravia/Drop stitch floor users tell me what we did wrong.
I row a 15' Zephyr- people frequently comment on how well the boat moves and how "fast" it is. Dunno?....

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Old 08-05-2016   #26
 
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Denver, Colorado
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if you are having Gary make you a frame, he will get the dimensions of you and your boat and draw up a CAD line drawing showing how long your oars, oar towers etc. should be. buy the oars then.

oar length is remarkably sensitive- 6" can make the boat feel heavy or too light, and its completely dependent on the frame (oar tower width) not the length of the raft. take the width between the oar lock, divide by 2, and multiply by three. thats a good starting point for what length oar you need.

You got yourself on the water with a cheap, temporary, disposable setup. don't throw more money at something you are going to throw away
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Old 08-05-2016   #27
 
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Wheat Ridge, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoapiglet View Post
if you are having Gary make you a frame, he will get the dimensions of you and your boat and draw up a CAD line drawing showing how long your oars, oar towers etc. should be. buy the oars then.

oar length is remarkably sensitive- 6" can make the boat feel heavy or too light, and its completely dependent on the frame (oar tower width) not the length of the raft. take the width between the oar lock, divide by 2, and multiply by three. thats a good starting point for what length oar you need.

You got yourself on the water with a cheap, temporary, disposable setup. don't throw more money at something you are going to throw away

Excellent advice, thank you. I hope to do this next iteration to my liking and really want it to last for a long time, so I'll work it out with Gary to make sure I know exactly which oars to buy.
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Old 09-27-2016   #28
 
Indianapolis, Indiana
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Originally Posted by mattman View Post
Got a pair of carlisle 8 1/2' shafts don't really need, if ya wanted em. Close to the 9' that sounds about right for your 13', maybe a touch short? might be okay though.
I'd be interested, if you still have them. I'm putting together my first raft. Let me know. Thanks.

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Old 09-28-2016   #29
 
Great Falls, Montana
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As another question.. could the material itself make much difference. I rented an outlaw last year and was not impressed with the way the boat felt but I hadn't oared many round boats at that time. Hypalon when properly inflated has a nice smooth finish. I remember that the outlaw had quite a texture. If I'm right it seems like the the material itself could have a lot more drag in the water. I know that I was way behind the other boat on that trip (sotar) but he was also much heavier. (the boat I mean)

Also the outlaw has a drop stitch floor and I seem to remember that it seemed to have strange geometry in the water but without being a hydro engineer I couldn't say what it was.
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