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Rope wrap VS sleeves

17K views 45 replies 19 participants last post by  garyherballeaf 
#1 ·
I'm getting some better oars. I've use oars with rope wrap and sleeves, but it doesn't seem like a huge difference. Whats the big deal with rope? Thanks
 
#4 ·
I found that adjusting the position of the stop is less dangerous (or at least easier) with the rope wrap and rubber doughnut stop -- with the sleeve, I stabbed my thumb trying to use a flathead screwdriver to keep the nut from spinning while turning the bolt with another screwdriver! YMMV! I should not be allowed near sharp objects.
 
#6 ·
As zbaird said rope, if done right, has a stickier feel in the locks. Sleeves tend to spin in the lock easier. My preference is rope and cobra locks FWIW. Rope tends to grip the lock and not let the blade cant during the power portion of the stroke. Now the rest of the buzz will probably have a tech hissy fit but I use 10' cataract shafts and (OMG) Carlisle 8" outfitter blades. This is for pushing an AIRE Jag. This boat has taken me down the Grand, Main, Gates, and many others. Now I also have other boats. One with pins and clips and one with locks and sleeves. I really like the rope, stoppers, and brass locks. It just feels good and lets you feather as you want and wont spin during the needed power stroke. But this is just my opinion.
Mark
 
#7 ·
As zbaird said rope, if done right, has a stickier feel in the locks. Sleeves tend to spin in the lock easier. My preference is rope and cobra locks FWIW. Rope tends to grip the lock and not let the blade cant during the power portion of the stroke. Now the rest of the buzz will probably have a tech hissy fit but I use 10' cataract shafts and (OMG) Carlisle 8" outfitter blades. This is for pushing an AIRE Jag. This boat has taken me down the Grand, Main, Gates, and many others. Now I also have other boats. One with pins and clips and one with locks and sleeves. I really like the rope, stoppers, and brass locks. It just feels good and lets you feather as you want and wont spin during the needed power stroke. But this is just my opinion.
Mark
Interesting, I have run NRS brass locks and rope wrap for most of my time boating, but a lot of my fishing buddies have sleeves and I really have never noticed an issue with ease of spin.... until last year, I added cobra's and brand new rope wrap to my rig last year and it's a whole different ball game. They don't spin well enough for my tastes, I've tried waxing the wrap, opening the locs a bit more and they're still too stiff (rotationally) for me. love every thing else about the setup, but I'm actually considering ditching the cobra's...

I typically don't row against the stop on any of my oars. I like the stop way inside so I can adjust how much oar I have in or out of the lock... that came from my old drift boat where I'd have to slide sideways on the seat to balance the boat due to the fishermen standing way off center. When I did that, I'd need one the oars to shift position to match my hands.

I have always liked the quietness of the rope wrap over sleeves, but usually I'm just focused on how tired my lats are from holding up the weight of the non-counterbalanced oars my friends all use.
 
#9 ·
Cobras have a little to much surface area for my tastes as well. I like regular brass locks and rope wrap. The wrap spins fine until it is under tension and then it bites, which I like.
Damn, I was hoping you'd say "put some XYZ on the wrap and you'll be set". I tried some nice spring yellow ski wax and it's better but not great.

Interestingly my 8 year old wraps work fine in the cobras, hardly a noticeable difference. It's the new chit from sawyer, feels like sandpaper. I was hoping it would start breaking down or get "filled" with brass powder by now. I might keep trying stuff because I really like the vertical throw the cobras have.
 
#11 ·
Not that I'd mind rowing you around to fish, but I get out quite a bit, they've got 80+ days on them. I really thought they'd loosen up more by now. Might have to try the 303 - but is the wrap considered fabric? Not sure I should risk it :rolleyes:
 
#12 ·
I guess it all depends on how you work the oars. I learned a long time ago that there are power rowers and finesse oarsmen(women). When I was young and strong I wanted to beat the river into a froth with my power strokes and get the river to do what I wanted it to do. Then back in the early 90's I watched a lady row a stretch of big water and how few strokes she took and how perfectly she made that run. It turned my thinking and rowing around. She did it with rope wraps and open locks, in an 18' Rogue(not many of you will remember that beautiful orange boat) and she styled it. I had the pleasure of talking to her later and she gave me the best advice on rowing style I have ever gotten. But that's another story. Rope and cobras are the way to go if you want to feel the water and be able to feather. Standard brass locks tend to chew up rope due to the small surface area that they bite into. Cobras, in my opinion, are a better feel on the oar and the water. Sleeves tend to spin too easily for my liking, but I use big blades. I would love to try shole? cuts and see how they handle with rope wraps. Anyway, Use what works best for you, it's all good, and it's another day on the water.
Mark
 
#13 ·
You'd think 80 days would have seasoned them up. That cobra brass must be hard. Maybe polish the hell out of the cobras. I have run with a guy whos will blind you when the sun hits them.

I guess regular locks would beat on the rope a little more but the sawyer rope holds up pretty well especially if it is tight and set in epoxy. The first oars I wrapped have got to have 300+ days on them and they are just starting to show wear. I bet I get 500 days out of them. I can deal with that kind of lifespan.


The shoal cuts are cool. I like rowing with them fishing. They scoop the water nicely and you can get a real bite even in shallow water. My buddy rows nothing but shoal cuts/cobras/wrap and swears by them in all kinds of water.
 
#19 ·
I've got well over 1000 miles between my 18' gear boat and my cat (lodore, MFS, Lower salmon, two selways, 250 miles on the lochsa, high water Gallatin, Belt, smith, bear trap, bitterroot, Yellowstone, upper main) and yes I do believe they are the best option out there. The new shrink wrap works very well.

I've also had them upside down at least 4 times and my oars stayed in place every time.

I've had them for two and a half seasons.
 
#28 ·
I've always used plastic sleeves, and considered rope wrap an unnecessary maintenance headache, watching folks keep their rope wrapped wood oars in shape.

But while waiting for my squaretop-compatible pro loks to arrive (stop everything else and just go buy these, they take every pro and eliminate every con from all the other oarlock designs on the market) I rowed my rope wrapped oars in open locks.

But my go-to superstons wouldn't fit my frame. I had to row the nrs atomics.

I HATE ATOMIC LOCKS. they pinch oars to death. Had a cataract oar in a plastic sleeve jam on the illinois: a 12-1 couldn't free the atomic lock, it 2 full size pickups. And by that time, the horns had cracked the oar under the sleeve! 100% not fixable on the river.

Well, I jammed a rope wrapped oar in the Atomic lock, and POP! no problem.

From this, I conclude the rope's ability to thin out and slip through those horns made all the difference.

So, while I'll still be taking the wrap off so I can run my pro loks, I have to say I've reconsidered my opinion on rope wrap, particularly with composite oars and NRS Atomic locks.
 
#32 ·
Pro-Loks from Pro-Loks, LLC? or pro-locks?

Keep hearing about pro-locks (loks) for Class 4/5 Whitewater.
But when I look online all I see is a company that makes a plastic/ss sleeve and collar that appears to be for the fishing/driftboat crowd. None of the reviews discuss using in whitewater.

This summer in Idaho a met some catboaters that had stainless steel oar locks with oar rites. They ran Class 4/5 with them and the only downside I could see was you needed to remove the blade to remove the oar from the
oar locks. Can not find them online.

Any help or pictures? Thanks
 
#33 ·
Yes, pro loks llc, Home

I've been amazed with my set. I admit, it looks like what you describe, a "plastic sleeve and collar fit for fishing/driftboat crowd."

But, the material is not some home depot abs, it is a burly high strength plastic.

First, how they work: the lock doesn't pinch in at the horns, the horns are vertical, or parallel. then, a bolt threads through the top of each horn, to pinch the collar on the oar, which has recessed spots to hold the bolt ends.

You can control the tension at which oars pop by tightening these bolts. The plastic collar is soft enough to pop and relase the oar, but it isn't possible to jam the oar in the lock in a bad position.

I am putting them everywhere I row.

Pins and clips con: no option for blade feather. I'm unsure how P&C do with oars popping before catostrophic failure.

Frogloks/posilockers: can allow for feathering, but still can't pop an oar to prevent breakage

open locks: maximally flexible, oar rights or not, but no way to keep the oar in the lock in the shit reliably. tighter you tune them, more you risk the "pinch of death" if you jam an oar.

Pro loks give you every one of the benefits, of each of these systems. the pro-rights are on, or off, with the flick of a wrist. The oar will stay put under almost any real world circumstance, but will pop before breaking.

I've actually not been able to pop an oar or otherwise damage my pro loks. They work, all the time, just they way you want 'em to.

I am a gear head, I love innovative design, and I love guys making groundbreaking gear in their garages. That's how most of our favorite companies got started, and that's what Dan at pro loks does.

I've had them on big water IV, technical ELF gear boating, and everything in between. I haven't yet run them in class V, but I'm 100% confident in next I get a chance to run the cascade, or wind, or tumwater etc.

If you are out in WA at all, I'd be glad to get them out for a demo day somewhere.
 
#34 ·
Slickhorn, Thanks for straightening that out. The ones I saw in Idaho were posilocks, made by Payette River Equipment. Don't see them on the PRE website, so I don't know if they are still being made? Have sent an email to Ted, but I'm sure he is off hunting or fishing. I did notice that on the PRE website, Ted is shown using Pins & Clips, not posilockers.

Interesting to hear about the pro-loks. From the website, I just assumed they were not for whitewater, I'll have to give them another look. Looks like there is a pin on the collar that matches a notch on the sleeve to act like an oar right, but they can be pulled in and feathered.

Thanks
 
#35 ·
Interesting to hear about the pro-loks. From the website, I just assumed they were not for whitewater, I'll have to give them another look. Looks like there is a pin on the collar that matches a notch on the sleeve to act like an oar right, but they can be pulled in and feathered.
Sorry to thread jack!!

the oar right concept consists of a thumbscrew on the oar stopper. As you say, there's a notch in the collar into which the thumbscrew sets to act as an oar right.

to disengage, you can do any of three things:

- flip the blade so the thumbscrew is on the opposite side of the collar - you loose only the 1/2" of the thumbscrew, not 4" pulling in on your oars.

- flip the collar itself when install the oars so the thumnbscrew divot faces the blade end, not the handle end

- unsrcrew the thumbscrew

I detest oar rights and I simply use method 1, which lets anyone borrowing the boat make their own choice.

To bring this full circle, I do wish there was a rope-wrap compatible collar. Dunno why that isn't an option.
 
#39 ·
Take a look at post #103 on pro locks review with pics thread. Our oar lock is designed to work with rope wrap and oar rights. (You should cut the oar rights down to about an inch). These have been down the GC twice this summer with no issues. Every one who has used them loves them. Quiet, smooth, feather or not, your choice. I have used mine all summer and they have not given me any problems what so ever. I will post up some pics of our newest design as soon as possible.
 
#42 ·
Rope Wrap



They won't let you into heaven if you use the cheap plastic sleeves. You'll meet St Peter, Allah or Budda at the gate, all of which have an ownership interest is Sawyer.

The plastic sleeves were an ok deal when they were $3.50. Now that they are $15 or some other extraordinary price, you can trade up for quality. 52 ft of rope can be acquired for sub $5. The value of having black rope wraps....
Priceless! Or white
 
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