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Old 02-08-2014   #1
windriver's Avatar
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 66
Price My Raft

I'm looking to replace my 16' Riken Shoshone this year with a new Aire or Maravia. Ideally I'd like to start from scratch and sell my current setup altogether. I have no idea what it's worth; it's probably best suited to someone just getting into the sport looking for a cheap multi day setup. Pricing thoughts?

- 16' Riken Shoshone bucket boat. It's in great shape; I've put a few patches on it where the rubber was getting thin, but it's never been punctured or torn. It holds air all day long. The floor looks really good, and is indicative of how little the raft has been used.
- 4 bay NRS aluminum frame. The frame was new 4 years ago.
- 3 older fiberglass composite oars.
- Large cooler (probably 140qt or so). Cooler has seen better days, but I've used it on 6+day trips and it's managed do the job. I recently replaced a handle.
- Standard aluminum dry box (36'' x 16'').
- Sturdy river table
- The oar setup is pins and clips, but could be easily swapped for oarlocks.
- Extras I'd include: Cooler hanger and straps, drybox hanger and straps, throw bag, four thwarts, oar rights, paddles.
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windriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2014   #2
Steamboat Springs, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 63
A few years ago i helped a friend in getting a boat from someone that i was doing landscape work for. which was a very similar set up, same boat but self bailing and similar gear except the frame was a older steel frame. he got it for 2200 which i think was a good deal for both parties. seeing as your boat is a bucket, yet has a better frame I would probably, if it was mine, price it around 2000 and be willing totake 1700 or so. just my two cents though.

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Old 02-08-2014   #3
Montrose, Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 128
Not an expert, but I keep an eye out for deals. Here is how I would break it down.

- 16' Riken Shoshone bucket boat. Used bucket boats are just not in very high demand. Figure $600- $1000 depending on the buyer. You just won't get your money back on it no matter how good it is.
- 4 bay NRS aluminum frame. NRS Frame gets close to new price. Find out what it is going for today and knock off 10-20%. Due to the component nature of NRS frames, people can use it.
- 3 older fiberglass composite oars. Oars go 60-80% of new price. Wild guess though without detail.
- Large cooler (probably 140qt or so). ~ 50% of new price if in decent shape. Brand names matter.
- Standard aluminum dry box (36'' x 16''). If dry box has good seals, then 80% of new. Not much to go wrong with a dry box beyond seals.
- Sturdy river table - Need more detail. $50 - $200 depending on what it is.
- The oar setup is pins and clips, but could be easily swapped for oarlocks. Don't know of very many people using pins and clips. It costs $150 - $200 to convert oars and setup (if using oar rights)
- Extras I'd include: Cooler hanger and straps, drybox hanger and straps, throw bag, four thwarts, oar rights, paddles. $100 - $200

It may be better to look at just replacing the boat part if you can. The accessories (which you already own) add up quickly when buying new. Put in the thwarts and sell the bucket boat as a rower
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Old 02-08-2014   #4
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,933
How old is the rubber? Hard to tell from photo. Age will matter in price significantly.

Only thing I would disagree on with others is the cooler. From your description I would not expect to get more than $50 for the cooler. Looks like your run of the mill Igloo type which doesn't take abuse well.

You are in Wyoming so the pins and clips could work in your favor. Wouldn't expect that feature to be a big hit south of you though.

Rehamxela estimate seems fair for the package.

Seems like you will take a hit on frame, dry box, table and oars. I would first look into what raft you want and see if the frame fits. If it does then I would really consider keeping those essentials and just selling the rubber. All of those items don't lose much integrity in the time you have had it but and will resale for a significant loss to you. Depending on age I would say $700-$1500 for bucket boat rubber. Maybe more as it looks good in the photo. Not having a frame chafer is a loss for price but won't matter as much if the buyer wants a cheap paddle boat.

Might be able to find a boy scout troop in the region that wants a rig for that purpose.

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Old 02-08-2014   #5
windriver's Avatar
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 66
Thanks for all the input. I think everyone has good points and reasoning. I think the range of $1,700 - $2,000 seems about right.

Restrac - You are correct on the cooler, I think it's an igloo or something similar. Probably worth $50. I have no idea how old the rubber is. Probably 10-15 years. I'm the second owner, and based on the bottom of the raft I'd guess the previous owner used it less than 20 times. Most of the wear on the raft is from being rolled. I used it 5-6 times a year for the past 4 years.

The reason I want to sell everything is I think it'd be great as a package for a new boater, or someone looking to get into overnights. Also, I'd like to get a custom double rail frame and a bigger dry box.
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Old 02-08-2014   #6
cedar city, Utah
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,933
Sounds like you have a plan. Hope you find an interested boater and enjoy a new rig. There are those of us who still like bucket boats. Bought an old 18' Avon bucket 2 years ago for roughly $650. It was older and more beat up but also carried the benefit of being Avon. From the photos yours look in much better shape.

Take some photos of the bottom. If the condition is as good as you say I would think that would be a solid selling feature. Consider advertising in Idaho as it is a great rig for something like the Main, Hells Canyon or lower Salmon.

Beyond the lack of familiarity with pins and clips in Utah its also a solid entry level desert rig. Bucket boats are great for high water runs in places like Cat or the Grand.

Good luck.

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Old 02-08-2014   #7
Salt Lake City, Utah
Paddling Since: 1969
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 188
Riken (and Campways, the forerunner company who built their boats in Tokyo... Rikens are mostly Korean, although some of the early ones were still built in Japan) were manufactured with a serial number plate on the inside of the rear tube, about halfway down (or where the seam tape is on the outside of the tube). Front can be distinguished from rear by presence of motor mount on latter (two attachments that resemble D-rings but are vertical rectangular rubber blocks for mounting transom with tapped holes for accepting bolts). Last two digits of serial number are the year of manufacture, a convention most inflatables still follow.
Campways models included the Miwok (13-14'), Shoshone (16') and Havasu (17'), all originally "boats." Nothing bucket about them except you need one to empty 'em. I'd rather row one of them down any big rapid than any "self-filler." Yes, for continuous action a self-filler (bailer) is better - I spent 4 years in Ecuador running some of the most continuous whitewater on the planet and grew to appreciate "progress." But I'll still take a boat ("bucket" in the above parlance) down the Grand - or in Cat above 40k - and get downstream faster than any self-filler in the bargain. Plain and simple you have (or can create by emptying water into it) a keel with a boat, whereas with a self-filler you need bigger tubes by definition (which catch the wind) and you just can't track as well as with a boat. Faced with the necessity to run something that has the capacity to stop and flip you, you want weight as low down as you can get it - and plenty of it!
I'm constantly amazed by threads on this forum with pictures of folks who rig everything but the kitchen sink on top of dry boxes or coolers, or fishing rigs that all but force fisherfolk to stand all the time. Not good from a center of gravity perspective, but unsure if gravity is a concern...
No question that at my advanced age I don't like to be standing on my floor filling 5 gallon bucket and emptying as fast as I can - last did that in a snowstorm below BD3 in Cat on April 2011 trip and it was a chore (17k that day - a great level, but I was running empty and I think I moved something like 40 buckets, around 700-800 pounds allowing for slop factor). So yes, I appreciate self-fillers and own several - but I still appreciate handling of REAL boats (just wish they came with folks who know how to bail!).
Campways/Riken was only competition to AVON in the 70's and early 80's until Hyside (also Hypalon) came into production in the mid-80's(?). Some of us old-timers think the Campways Havasu is about the best handling boat ever built. It was in production for 10-12 years, designed by Vladimir Kovalic (Wilderness World), from maybe 1975-86 or '87. First there was the Havasu, then Havasu II and later the Havasu III - all models have been retro-fitted with self-bailer floors, the last years of production saw Riken move exclusively that way. Riken models include the Nez Perce, the Hualapai (which replaced the Havasu), and continued production of the Miwok and Shoshone - but with self-bailing floors.
Not trying to cast any stones, but likely the boat pictured is at least 20 years old. That's hardly middle-aged for good Hypalon, and from the two not very detailed views, the material looks in good shape. Second the suggestion to post some pix of the floor, also maybe valves. Value? - whatever you can get (this is the USA...) Market for used 16' paddle boats is limited, so think you might be wise to sell entire package and start fresh.
No comment on pins and clips.
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Old 02-08-2014   #8
East MT, WestMT, Both sides of the Yellowstone
Paddling Since: 09
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,112
1000- 1400 is my guestamate. Put her on the water and hang a for sale sign off the back, have a really good time and maybe you will find a buyer on the river who wants to get in a boat on the cheap. 1200$ to get on the river ain't a bad deal and that rubber isn't getting any younger but the old rikens are tough. We have a couple self bailers in our crew.
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Old 02-08-2014   #9
windriver's Avatar
Jackson, Wyoming
Paddling Since: 2007
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 66
B4otter - Thanks for the history lesson on my boat! As soon as the 3ft of snow outside my garage melts I'll roll it out and look for that serial number. I'll take some pics of the floor and valves as well. I've always had lot of comments about the good condition for being "an older boat".

I don't mind bucket boats under most circumstances, in fact there are many times I've been glad to have that feature. It tracks really well, and is lighter than self-bailers. For a lot of the flat water sections on the Snake River in Wyoming and the Colorado River it's been great. And when it's time to go through the rapids my passengers are the one's bailing not me haha.

I drew a MF Salmon permit for the first week in July (My 2nd in 4 years) and want a self bailer this time. It's continuous and there's a lot of obstacles to avoid. That's my excuse anyways. In reality, besides a few rapids on the Middle Fork, I haven't felt disadvantaged at all. It's been a great boat for Westwater at all levels, the "daily" outside Moab, and Alpine Canyon on the Snake.
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Old 02-09-2014   #10
Golden, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1975
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 535

my knuckles started to bleed just looking at this picture. ouch... that's a crazy small,restricted cockpit,homie.

i'd give a more accurate number of days it stays inflated before needing a top off. 'It holds air all day long. ' is too vague. providing it stays good for 4+ days without needing air in your garage then i'd start at $1800-$2100. if it's a leaker and needs topping off every morning then it's all worth allot,allot less.

also, a problem with the more you sell together....frame,oars,clips,ect. the greater the chance that something in that combo is that something has no value to the buyer and will need to be replaced or altered to meet his tastes. oar length/type,frame layout, pin/clips, ect are all examples. so you get less in the end, most likely. good thing about nrs frames is they can be changed so easily vs. others so that's a good selling point too.

good luck.

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