Motor rigs are rafts too! - Page 2 - Mountain Buzz
 



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-15-2016   #11
 
montrose, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1999
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 327
Here is the old definition that I was taught:

Extremely long, obstructed, or very violent rapids which expose a paddler to added risk. Drops may contain large, unavoidable waves and holes or steep, congested chutes with complex, demanding routes. Rapids may continue for long distances between pools, demanding a high level of fitness. What eddies exist may be small, turbulent, or difficult to reach. At the high end of the scale, several of these factors may be combined. Scouting is recommended but may be difficult. Swims are dangerous, and rescue is often difficult even for experts. Proper equipment, extensive experience, and practiced rescue skills are essential.

It seems to me that Cataract at 50k meets all of these criteria.

Also, American Whitewater list the Big Drops at 30k as a benchmark rapid for the class 5.0 designation.

mikepart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016   #12
 
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 732
I can attest that at high water (I saw 70,000) neither Little Niagara nor Satan's Gut recognizes the Class I-V scale.
DoStep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016   #13
 
Salt Lake City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 345
I've been floating for almost 10 years. I come from 20+years of aid climbing which uses a very strange rating system. I have found that rivers are the same way. Each level brings different ratings . It Depends on the person doing the rating as well. I can't figure them out and likely ever will!
tanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016   #14
 
Denver, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1988
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepart View Post
It seems to me that Cataract at 50k meets all of these criteria.
YUP.
yardsells is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016   #15
 
Salt Lake City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 345
Anybody know a good rating reference?
tanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016   #16
 
Electric-Mayhem's Avatar
 
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanderson View Post
Anybody know a good rating reference?
https://www.americanwhitewater.org/c...ver_difficulty

I've always thought that while the I-VI scale works allright, it does leave a lot of room for interpretation. A kayaker who has thrown himself off of 100 foot waterfalls in the middle of nowhere or paddled into this on purpose...



is going to rate something differently then a novice or someone with more timid tastes. I always thought it could use some more detail too...which is why I was intrigued by "the addison scale"...



Corran is one of the first group of people I described...the Class VI boater who loves to risk death...and his ratings descriptions don't reflect my own or most boaters. This is from a instructional creeking video, so I don't think the video playing while he is talking is necessarily matched to what he is talking about. I do like the separation of difficulty, danger and exposure though. Some rapids can be really easy "run it down the middle and then move right to miss a hole then catch the eddy on the left" but if you mess up and hit that hole and then get washed into another rapid because you didn't catch that eddy on the left it can take the rating up a lot. That rating will change depending on if its a 2 day hike out or roadside too.

I personally watch a lot of videos on Youtube to see what lines people take through rapids. Recently it was the Grand Canyon and I was kinda of flabergasted by how many people prefer to completely skirt the rapids down there. I don't mean take the easier of two fun lines, I mean they go out of their way to bump down the side of the rapid and miss every feature in the rapid. Obviously its not possible for every rapid down there, just as it is with Cataract at high flows.

I went down the Grand for my first time in August and didn't take the meat lines every time and avoided "insta-flip" features, but I was down there to run the rapids as much as anything else and especially towards the end was looking to hit all the big stuff and came out fine. I understand that isn't the reason some people go down there, but I just don't understand the "avoid the big stuff" mentality either.

That said, as for the original posting, I could see myself getting one of those snout rigs eventually. Not the answer or even possibility for every river, but they do look like a hoot. I motored through a few rapids in Deso (I know...not even remotely similar to Cataract at high water) and it was kinda fun to haul ass. I don't, however, want to know what the price tag for one of those rigs is. Between having a primary and backup motor, huge snout tubes, work boxes, a large frame a bunch of dry boxes and all the other stuff that goes into it I bet its a pretty penny. Still cool though...and I'd have loved to one for the CU kayak club trips I did down Cataract a decade ago. Seems like a great small boat support rig....let me know if you ever want to let me come on a grand trip with a 12' raft
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016   #17
 
Salt Lake City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 345
I think there should be a separate rating for kayaks and rafts.
tanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016   #18
 
Electric-Mayhem's Avatar
 
Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1993
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 450
Yeah....another area open for interpretation. Even the Grand Canyon scale is open for interpretation despite it having a pretty solid basis of comparing everything relative to Lava Falls. I can't see a solid way to actually accomplish a rating scale that works for everyone though. Even trying to standardize it or have a committee of varying people that agrees on ratings wouldn't be perfect especially with the tendency for rivers to change pretty drastically based on water levels.
Electric-Mayhem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016   #19
 
Salt Lake City, Utah
Paddling Since: 2008
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 345
That's the reason I pay less attention to ratings and more on reading rivers.
tanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2016   #20
 
lmyers's Avatar
 
Buena Vista, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2005
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric-Mayhem View Post
Yeah....another area open for interpretation. Even the Grand Canyon scale is open for interpretation despite it having a pretty solid basis of comparing everything relative to Lava Falls. I can't see a solid way to actually accomplish a rating scale that works for everyone though. Even trying to standardize it or have a committee of varying people that agrees on ratings wouldn't be perfect especially with the tendency for rivers to change pretty drastically based on water levels.
Very true, and my statements are generally based on a kayakers perspective. I can certainly see where many stretches of river, and rapids in particular are significantly more difficult for a loaded boat, especially a raft, but for the most part the consequences in these situations don't change.... and that is what I usually use for my interpretation of difficulty. Thanks for the conversation.... hope I didn't offend anyone too much
__________________
GARNA’s mission is to foster stewardship of the resources of the greater Arkansas River region through education, volunteerism and experiences. https://garna.org
lmyers is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Topic Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Motor rigs / Boat Formations KingElbear Whitewater Rafting 5 06-07-2016 09:30 AM
Cataract too low for 27' motor rig? Swatdot Whitewater Kayaking 16 07-05-2012 12:12 PM
Rafts, rafts, and rafts... (fishing) Hypobaricstalker Whitewater Kayaking 27 01-12-2012 01:55 AM
Ghetto Rigs rafterman Kayaking | Gear Talk 18 04-30-2011 10:26 AM
looking for folks to run whitewater on Poudre in oar rigs red wiggler Whitewater Kayaking 5 06-06-2005 11:20 AM

» Classified Ads
2014 Rocky Mountain Storm...

posted by clinks

This package was put together in late 2014, and has been on...

AIRE 156R 16' bad ass raft

posted by Imlivinforever

Selling for friend; AIRE 156r raft with aluminum 4 bay...

fishcat cougar

posted by chinmatra

used fishcat cougar with 1 original oar and 2 newer oars....

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.