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Old 11-13-2015   #11
cataraftgirl's Avatar
Sandy, Utah
Paddling Since: 1997
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,121
If he's coming to visit, wait until he gets there to clean up the boat. He should be helping you clean it. He definitely owes your for the GPS. Things happen on river trips and gear gets worn or dirty. The drop bag repair and missing straps fall into that gray area and its your call on those items. If I borrowed gear from a friend and it was damaged or lost on the trip, I would absolutely replace it or reimburse for it.

I feel your pain. I have loaned out gear and had it get ruined. It's a tricky thing to have to haggle with a friend or the wait many months to have something either replaced or be reimbursed.

"We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love....and then we return home."
Australian Aboriginal Proverb
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Old 11-13-2015   #12
Canon City, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 427
Case of good beer? Hell, my circle it's always been at least a bottle of nice single malt, PLUS something nice to add to the rig. Once I got a drop bag, another time an umbrella, etc.

Anyway, yeah, I've gotten gear back like that. Sucks. Dunno what to tell you about what he "owes" you, but that's a personal decision based on how good a friend he is, how pissed you are, and how likely you think he is to respond favorable vs unfavorably, among other things.

Who knows? Maybe he's more or less unaware that anything's wrong other than the GPS and will totally take care of it all without a list of demands. I guess I would say something but maybe I'd approach in a "Hey I was kind of disappointed with these things" sort of way rather than a "You owe me two straps, a GPS and a Dropbag- oh and a day of cleaning" kind of way.

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Old 11-13-2015   #13
Salida, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1986
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 728
Borrower should not be helping clean the boat, he should be cleaning the boat himself. Don't clean it before he arrives and ask him wtf with this filthy boat when he gets there. First response to the op is the correct one. It's clear cut, hold him to it.
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Old 11-13-2015   #14
flagstaff, Arizona
Paddling Since: 09
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 159
One o my dad's fav expressions... "son.. if you don't understand it... I can't explain it to ya." I loaned gear once on a trip I didn't go on. Never again.
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Old 11-13-2015   #15
Denver Metro, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2010
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 3
Thanks for the replies, everyone... Yes, I thought about waiting until he got back to clean everything, but I had the day off today and I want to get everything stowed away before it snows Monday.

We do have a list of everything that went out. So that is not a problem.

I am just disappointed. I would never, never borrow someone's gear and return it dirty like this, let alone broken. I would flat out replace or repair anything that I damaged beyond the normal wear and tear.

I guess I just assume (no jokes please! ha!) that people will act like I do. I've been burned in the past with other outdoor gear, but those were always non-outdoor friends who, I really think, didn't understand the costs of the items or how to take care of them properly. This guy has been rafting for all of his adult life (suffice it to say a long time) and I thought he would know the value of the gear and how to take care of it. We did talk briefly about replacing damaged gear. Again, if it were me (so many assumptions!) I would keep a list and carefully note any damage I thought was beyond normal wear and tear, and a list of things that could be construed as normal or excessive. But I guess that's me. Bleh.

I think I'll just ask for cash. I'll find a comparable GPS unit on ebay or something and get an estimate for how much to repair the drop bag. Maybe a couple of straps. And I will practice saying no for the future. Ha!

Yeah, you'd think he'd go above and beyond replacing or fixing gear (and carefully cleaning everything and 303ing the boat). I'm sure I saved them more than $1,000. That's worth at least a case of beer, or a gift card, or something.

Everyone should learn from my mistake!
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Old 11-14-2015   #16
frisco, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1995
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 64
you can buy a boat, but you can't buy friendship.
full yellow life jacket
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Old 11-14-2015   #17
Buffalo, New York
Paddling Since: 2003
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 109
There are only two friends that I would ever lend my rubber to, and they're the two people that taught me how to clean and patch boats the right way, Correctly and right the first time. I wouldn't ask anyone to borrow their boat, gear for sure, but not boat. Good luck, thanks for sharing your story.

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Old 11-14-2015   #18
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 883

Maybe your buddy will read all this, and arrive ready to do the right thing.


Rich Phillips
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Old 11-14-2015   #19
flagstaff, Arizona
Paddling Since: 09
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by bob larrabee View Post
you can buy a boat, but you can't buy friendship.
What kinda friends borrow your gear tear it up and don't even offer to repair it? Those arnt friends they are leaches at best. Trust me on this... I've pulled off plenty of em.
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Old 11-14-2015   #20
jakebrown98's Avatar
Portland, Oregon
Paddling Since: 2001
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 165
If I borrow someone's equipment I make sure I can afford to replace everything I take at market value... Bringing it back clean, putting it away, and accounting for every piece is his responsibility and the bare minimum required.

I tell anyone who might ask to borrow my equipment--Everything will comeback clean and repaired to my satisfaction or replaced within a month, maybe two. We are grown ups with savings account and credit cards if need be.

I've borrowed another buddy's IKs in the past and I always make sure to slip him a $50. One of my best friends rarely borrows gear directly but is often a passenger along on private trips that I primarily outfit myself. Most trips he'll buy me a piece of equipment to add to the fleet just for having him along. A thwart bag, a vacuum sealer, etc. Money cannot buy friends like that that is for sure.

Good luck with the reckoning...

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