Good boat for the Grand - Page 4 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 03-06-2014   #31
 
sledhooligan's Avatar
 
Craigamerica, -
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The Grand is one river I wouldnt hesitate taking a well setup 16ft bucket boat. My 16 Rogue bucket was built just for a Grand trip. There is a reason the the NPS still runs 18 buckets. They track and hold lines better plus they are faster down the river. The rapids on the Grand to me are all about your setup and entry. You dont realy have to make alot of moves once you are in them.. And being a pool drop river you have plunty of time to bail especialy if you do a bilge setup. I would spend more time making sure your boat setup is Grand worthy then worryabout a self bailer.

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Old 03-06-2014   #32
 
Redmond, Oregon
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Originally Posted by B4otter View Post
you can add water to a boat with a floor, and that can save your ass.
One could also add water to a self-bailer for specific rapids / standing waves.

One could build a fold-a-tank for the front of a boat where you wanted weight for punching through a wave etc.
Set up your on-board tank and fill it up.
It would not have to be made to absolute water tight performance. Slow leak would be OK.
A remote release from the Captains seat would be easy. Get through the wave and then dump most of the tank in a few seconds.

This would not provide the benefit for the entire boat floor being stabilized for reducing flips or stretched lower for tracking.
It would only help with punching through a wave provided directional control was maintained.
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Old 03-06-2014   #33
 
Redmond, Oregon
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Has anyone ever built a boat that had a floor adjustable to two different speeds of self bailing?
One being very slow for GC Big Water.
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Old 03-06-2014   #34
 
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Originally Posted by BilloutWest View Post
One could also add water to a self-bailer for specific rapids / standing waves.
I have added water to my self bailer for lava. I filled the empty front ice chest with water and filled to 5 gallon jugs with water and strapped them to the inside front of the boat. We torpedoed through the V-wave, washed my bro-in-law 3/4 out of the boat and upside down. Took him 5 beers to get the river taste out of his mouth.
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Old 03-06-2014   #35
 
Redmond, Oregon
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Originally Posted by kikii875 View Post
I have added water to my self bailer for lava. I filled the empty front ice chest with water and filled to 5 gallon jugs with water and strapped them to the inside front of the boat. We torpedoed through the V-wave, .................
That's the same idea I had with making a fabric pool for the front of the boat.

Mass is worth something.

=========

The way this could be done to a self-bailer for the Canyon would be to make a fabric 'pool' that would be between the inside of the boat and the frame. Its supported only so high up to limit getting too much water in. This fabric floor could be made of a better tarp material, not the lighter parachute fabrics. It wouldn't have to be absolutely water tight.

Its put in place at Lee's Ferry.
The cams, (or other fastener), are loose and it sags down normally and the floor bails OK.
Until it is snugged up off the inside rail of the frame.
Some nuance is going to be required here. Depending on how any given boat is crammed with gear against the tubes.
It gets hooked up where its functional for 6-8 GC events at the scouting landing.
At the end of a rapid there is still no bailing.

There could be two or three segments to it.
A front pool pre-filled with a remote release. Doing what you did with the cooler in Lava.
A mid section catching water across the flat of the boat ..........
Maybe just skip the rear with all the cargo in that bay.

Sort of a Grand Canyon special without much use elsewhere.
One doesn't need to install it on the John Day anyway.

Although I think I could make this tub double as a boat cover for other rivers. Lowering sun exposure on boat fabric is desirable.
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Old 03-07-2014   #36
 
cedar city, Utah
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Originally Posted by carvedog View Post

Phillip - I might give it to you on the tracking ( very slightly depending on configuration ) and cooler staying cooler.
Not gonna try to convince someone who has firsthand experience with buckets that they are fun when they think/experienced otherwise. Just don't try to say it takes a 35 year gap in boating to enjoy 'em either. Plenty of us out there who are totally happy with their benefits and inherent needs. In general I think SBs tend to be seen as the only option and people write off buckets as some antiquatted technology that has no place on the river. Simply not true. Each boat has its strengths and weaknesses that change with the stretch of river you are running.

Plenty of times and places I won't take my old 18' Avon bucket but for that I have the ultimate self-bailer....my 14' Cataraft.

To each their own. Hope the OP finds a solution that works based upon his needs and preferences.

Phillip
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Old 03-07-2014   #37
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Originally Posted by restrac2000 View Post
Not gonna try to convince someone who has firsthand experience with buckets that they are fun when they think/experienced otherwise. Just don't try to say it takes a 35 year gap in boating to enjoy 'em either. Plenty of us out there who are totally happy with their benefits and inherent needs. In general I think SBs tend to be seen as the only option and people write off buckets as some antiquatted technology that has no place on the river. Simply not true. Each boat has its strengths and weaknesses that change with the stretch of river you are running.

Plenty of times and places I won't take my old 18' Avon bucket but for that I have the ultimate self-bailer....my 14' Cataraft.

To each their own. Hope the OP finds a solution that works based upon his needs and preferences.

Phillip
Most of my experience with bucket boats besides the one Grand trip have been on the Salmons in Idaho where motors ( and electric bilge pump systems) are not legal. A bilge pump system could make all the difference. I tend to forget that. I also had a not great experience on the Selway with a bucket boat.

I am looking forward to getting my self bailer on the Grand as soon as I can. I won't be wishing for a bucket boat. Three invites for next year so who knows it might work out.
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Old 03-07-2014   #38
 
Golden, Colorado
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i had a 16ft hyside bucket boat. loved that thing. if it had been a self-bailer, i'd still have it.

apart from the labor, i'll take consistent,responsive handling through out rapids any day. with buckets, you never know...maybe you clean it or maybe you are suddenly rowing 4,000lbs of water laden pig boat.
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Old 03-07-2014   #39
 
cedar city, Utah
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Originally Posted by upshitscreek View Post
i had a 16ft hyside bucket boat. loved that thing. if it had been a self-bailer, i'd still have it.

apart from the labor, i'll take consistent,responsive handling through out rapids any day. with buckets, you never know...maybe you clean it or maybe you are suddenly rowing 4,000lbs of water laden pig boat.
The one place I have with a boating loading with water to capacity was Lava. Once in a SB and once in a bucket. Both times the boats were filled to just below the tops of the tubes (gotta love the V-Wave). Only difference in the experience was how the boat emptied itself. But both times it wasn't empty until around Son of Lava. Neither boat maneuvered very fast until that point.

I remember sitting solo in the 16 foot SB in knee deep water (actually a little above) through the Big Kahuna vividly. The image of water cascading from the front into the back as pushed those sticks will be ingrained in my memory for ages. Those moments between the V-Wave an as you pass the cheese grater are euphoric and filled with adrenaline so while I knew my boat was sluggish I managed. It doesn't hurt that a fair amount of tequila has been consumed that night on both trips either. Helps ease those tired muscles into 10 hours of sleep.

Only boat that didn't hold water there was the 16 foot Cat that was rowed solo (and from a front position). She didn't have thousands of pounds of water to row with but damn if I don't swear she went submarine mode into the V-Wave. That bright yellow boat seemed to disappear for much longer than all the rest of us. Normally wouldn't mind that as a Cat boater myself but not in January (especially after just drying out after 6 days straight of heavy rain).

No matter the perceived differences we are all stuck rowing the boat we brought once we get there.

Phillip
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Old 03-08-2014   #40
El Chupanibre
 
Thornton, Colorado
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While we're on the subject. I have a 14' DRE Cataraft, and I was hoping the get the opinions of Grand Canyon veterans. I'd like to take my boat down the Grand Canyon (just purchased the rig this fall). I this a wise choice?
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