Good boat for the Grand - Page 3 - Mountain Buzz
 



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Old 03-04-2014   #21
Old Guy in a PFD
 
Tucson, Arizona
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I ran an 18' bucket on both of my Grand Canyon trips. Self bailers were not common then, and bailing was a part of running.

For my part, I'd take a 16.5 bucket on the Grand, as long as it held my beer.

I considered bailing a part of the experience. You know, run, bail. float. bail. stop. bail. start. bail. Kind of a zen thing.

And yes, in Lava.........or Crystal or Hance for that matter, the water in the boat is welcome.

And do NOT let Lava start in on your psyche........the entry is the thing. After that, you're pretty much just along for the ride.

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Old 03-04-2014   #22
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Bellevue, Idaho
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Originally Posted by Schutzie View Post
I considered bailing a part of the experience. You know, run, bail. float. bail. stop. bail. start. bail. Kind of a zen thing.
I am calling BS on this one. You said it has been a while since you boated.
Go bail out an 18 footer full to the top of the tubes and then talk to me about Zen. Me thinks it has been too long. That shit is not fun.
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Old 03-04-2014   #23
 
cedar city, Utah
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Originally Posted by carvedog View Post
I am calling BS on this one. You said it has been a while since you boated.
Go bail out an 18 footer full to the top of the tubes and then talk to me about Zen. Me thinks it has been too long. That shit is not fun.
To each their own I guess. Was just down in May with our old bailer we bought for that trip. Fun might be an exaggeration but it was Zen and I enjoyed the process. We (2 of us with buckets) had it 2/3 bailed between Lava and Son of Lava but I was being aggressive and had the bucket out after we emerged from The V and was bailing sometime between it and the Big Kahuna. Gave me something to do and distracted me from the intensity of the run.

I wouldn't change anything about having a bailer in the Grand. I have only done it twice, once with a 16 foot self-bailer in 2010 and then with the 18 foot bucket in 2013. I found the self bailer to be much less controllable in the runout to most rapids in the Grand. Those competing eddies and boils were much easier to manage with the bucket. And Lava was the only time we took full water on so most of the time we were done aggressively bailing within minutes and then could take our time with the little bit of water that remained.

And it can't be overestimated how much longer our ice lasted in the bucket boat. A self bailer insulated the cooler from the cold water beneath it which is a disadvantage. Our ice lasted a ridiculous amount of time in the bucket because of its closeness to the 55F degree water versus solely being in the hot air. Not as good as having the root cellar we called a Dory on our first trip but definitely an asset.

If I was taking my 65 year old dad as the only passenger down the Grand I would likely be swayed to a self bailer but that would be the only thing I could think of that would outweigh the benefits I have with our old beast.

Phillip
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Old 03-04-2014   #24
 
Eugene, Oregon
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I cannot speak about the Grand because I haven't run it, but I learned to row a loaded gear boat in a 14' Achilles bucket. I had nothing to compare it to but I sold it for a 15' NRS Otter. In hind sight I should have just kept the Achilles. I would like to have both.

I had a bucket boat experience like carve dogs where the extra water in the boat kept me from flipping. Instead I dump trucked leaving only me in the boat to go pick up my father in law and wife. Rowing a 1000 pound boat full H2o ain't easy. Even on an adreniline rush.
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Old 03-05-2014   #25
 
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Sandy, Utah
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A friend of mine took an 18 ft. Hyside bucket boat down the Grand last summer. He rigged up a bilge pump that he said worked great. He bought that boat last spring used from a commercial outfitter. Well used, but in great shape. He took it down Deso last spring to work out the kinks before the Grand trip.
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Old 03-05-2014   #26
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Bellevue, Idaho
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To each their own I guess. Was just down in May with our old bailer we bought for that trip. Fun might be an exaggeration but it was Zen and I enjoyed the process.
We've agreed to disagree before and might have to again.

There were four large rafts on my trip, three were SB. Basically passengers were trying not to ride in my boat on the 'big' days. On the light water days I had no problem getting passengers as I make a killer nest for people to hang out. And I was able to run very clean on a lot of the medium drops but.....I kind of hated trying to miss everything so I wouldn't kill my passenger bailing.

Not like I am Mr. High Adventure line, but if I go again I want to T up and hit that shit. Different strokes.
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Old 03-05-2014   #27
Old Guy in a PFD
 
Tucson, Arizona
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I am calling BS on this one. You said it has been a while since you boated.
Go bail out an 18 footer full to the top of the tubes and then talk to me about Zen. Me thinks it has been too long. That shit is not fun.

Yep, 35 years to be exact. No matter. Bailing was as much a part of a trip as rowing. It was just what you did if you weren't rowing and there was water in the boat. Which, given the boats we ran, was pretty much always.

I'll tell you what wasn't fun. Blowing up the boats by mouth. Now that chore blew chunks! (pun intended)

(old guy wanders off mumbling about cheeky whippersnappers)
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Old 03-05-2014   #28
 
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Bozeman, Montana
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When I ran my 16.5 ft bucket on the Salmon I would slip out of the wave train as soon as I could so as to make for less bailing. I also thought a self bailer of the same size could handle a load better. I might be wrong on that but my raft with the added water was a toad.
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Old 03-06-2014   #29
Dipshit with the most.
 
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Bellevue, Idaho
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Originally Posted by Schutzie View Post

Yep, 35 years to be exact. No matter. Bailing was as much a part of a trip as rowing. It was just what you did if you weren't rowing and there was water in the boat. Which, given the boats we ran, was pretty much always.

I'll tell you what wasn't fun. Blowing up the boats by mouth. Now that chore blew chunks! (pun intended)

(old guy wanders off mumbling about cheeky whippersnappers)
I really didn't mean to pick on you Schutz. Euphoric recall happens to us all.
I was in a bucket boat on my first Main Salmon trip and it was a blast.
And yes I am sure he could manage it if he had to.

Sembob's profile shows he's been boating since 1980 and I see maybe a hint of gray in that profile pic. If he has the resource to and can I don't know why you wouldn't run a self-bailer. Save energy for the hikes and camp and goofing instead of working out with a bucket.
Of course there is the bilge pump option and that might work too, but as much as I loved my early days of boating I do not miss bailing and dealing with wet feet all the time. even with a great bilge pump I can't see it being dry down there unless you get really down in it.

Phillip - I might give it to you on the tracking ( very slightly depending on configuration ) and cooler staying cooler.
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Old 03-06-2014   #30
 
Salt Lake City, Utah
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Reasons not to run self-filler: (1) they flat don't hold a line or track as well in flat water. Period. (2) they must have bigger (larger diameter) tubes to carry the same amount of weight for an equal design - and larger diameter tubes catch wind. (3) as several have mentioned on other posts, and indispensable when you need it: you can add water to a boat with a floor, and that can save your ass.
In Cat at 80k + ( a long time ago), those rowing self-fillers were looking for rocks to put in their ammo cans/dry boxes to add weight down low.
No denying the advantage to a self-bailer when you need to lose that weight and get some licks in QUICK!
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