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Old 03-21-2011   #51
slamkal's Avatar
vancouver, Washington
Paddling Since: 1996
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,146
I let a bunch of noobies row my 12' maravia cat and I was upset with all the scratches to the frame and the trashing to the chrome on the drings but the boat stll looked great. Now that's some durable shit

This, btw, on the same trip where i lost a half day of rowing when my NRS hypalon cat tore a nice 2" gash just pushing off a rock it was resting on at camp

So I agree hypalon is much cheaper and although it's easy to patch a small hole, I'd rather not have to

However biggest downside to urethane is the material doesn't roll at all so I need room to lay the tubes flat

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Old 03-21-2011   #52
Dipshit with the most.
carvedog's Avatar
Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,496
Originally Posted by caverdan View Post
An AVON doesn't in go with the flow......

Raft guides learn to race down the you get older you'll learn to go with the flow and spin to win. I leave my driving to motor boats.
I am a raft guide and as I have gotten older I realize that I never did learn to race down the river...

Originally Posted by RCinAL View Post
Here is my 2 cents:
..... other issues like stress cracking when stored rolled up; or being difficult and expensive to repair; or becoming brittle with time and temperature extremes. Hypalon, being rubber-based instead of plastic, rolls and stores better than anything else on the market because it doesn't tend to bend in the same place every time and develope stress cracks that will cause weakness and, eventually certain failure. And if hypalon gets a hole (doubtful on the rivers you describe) you just glue on a patch and it is there for the life of the boat.

I have owned hypalon rafts for 20 years and all I have ever done to "care" for them is ride them hard, roll them up, and sling them in the shed wet. .
I have owned my boat for 15 ( Maravia) and I sure don't have to much to mine. I did have replace the webbing that holds in the floor last year.
Stored it in a snowbank one year. True story. I had it rolled and tarped and then a freak early snow and some wind and it was in a big drift and I left it there. No problems. Stress cracking is a myth. Show me. I sure haven't seen any on mine and it is over 20 yrs old.

Originally Posted by JustKip View Post
Urethane coatings are not inferior. Urethane base material is, because it don't flex well, roll well, and is prone to pinholes after a few (several) years.
Boats "developing" pinholes as some product of aging is a myth as well. Pinholes did show up in some bad batches of material years ago. They are not a product of aging.

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Old 03-21-2011   #53
raftus's Avatar
Boulder, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,128
Originally Posted by have1 View Post
....There is no truth to saying that a hypalon boat performs better than a urethane boat; none AT ALL, and anyone who has ran professionally and has any sense to them will tell you the same. ...there is no manufacturer in the world that makes a hypalon boat as durable as what Sotar, Wing, and maravia are putting out there; this is why rivers like 6 mile in AK, and so forth cannot run hypalon. I've seen hypalon boats literally pop when used by guides who are used to the durability of a maravia... I'm so sorry, but this is just such HS... If you run a hypalon boat and you're a professional (sorry for being offensive here to the guy from Alabama) in a place like Idaho where you're 6 days from a road and everything the boat touches is granite, you MUST carry a patch kit. ...Hypalon boats are also worse for the environment as they are complete litter, all over the landfills, and they are typically the cheaper built ones since the material is CHEAP. YES CHEAP. Urethane is far far more expensive to build. ...You can buy 2 hypalon boats for the cost of one maravia. ... seriously.. this is a silly conversation to be having.
Wow - you sure have a strong opinion. Nice of you to insult folks who don't share it, especially on your first post to mountainbuzz. I too have been a professional guide for years (since 2000) with thousands of river miles and have guided boats from a lot of manufacturers everywhere from the Gauley in West Virgina to the Nenana in Alaska (and yes I ran Six Mile, in a hypalon boat).

There are some great urethane boats out there, as well as some great Hypalon ones, and PVC boats are a bit more of a mixed bag of quality - some great, some not. Yes urethane is usually the most expensive material, followed by Hypalon and the least expensive is PVC. Hypalon is in no way cheap. Nor is it lacking in durability. It is true that there are a lot of Hypalon boats out there with patches on them - their ease of repair is a selling point, and hypalon boats often stay with commercial companies years after they retire their PVC boats. To get a good patch on a PVC boat you need to weld it in place - hard to do in the middle of the wilderness.

As far as the mythical cheap hypalon boats - 14'3" Hyside Outfitter Pro's (hypalon) are listing for $6,695. A Maravia Williwaw 1 (14') lists for $5,178. AIRE's 143R is $4,569 in PVC, more for urethane. NRS's lower end hypalon Otter 140 (14') lists for $3,750. But their urethane Revolution 140 (14') is cheaper at $3,295.

My Hyside has about 15 years of use (it started it's life as a commercial boat) and will still be going strong for at least another decade. I've guided Avons and Hyside that were used for 10-15 years commercially and still performed great.

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