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Old 08-08-2014   #51
Dipshit with the most.
carvedog's Avatar
Bellevue, Idaho
Paddling Since: 1991
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 2,497
Originally Posted by David Miller View Post
In the incident that you describe did the dog have a KFD? Amazing story!
No, he did not. As the TL I felt bad about that for not stepping down harder to make sure that happened. His owner was a former guide, great boatman, high but not flood stage and the fact for the dog to not go would have required a three hour delay in launch. Doggy PFD would have been less time but still......when you are trying to launch and 20 minutes before go time you find out that the darn dog doesn't have a PFD....that is the only way I can rationalize a marginal decision.

After that we did fashion a PFD for him with my spare PFD. The dog just laid around for about two days and then started to get back to his normal self.
That is the closest I have seen to a dog fatality. I have heard of several retrieving type dogs getting caught in current chasing sticks and ending up in log jams. The whole valley runs along the Big Wood River and it is no joke.

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Old 08-08-2014   #52
mr. compassionate's Avatar
conifer, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 937
Originally Posted by elkhaven View Post
Unfortuneatly I figured this would spiral into this sort of crap. I honestly can't believe the vid of the Salmon float hasn't been lit up due to a passenger going through a wave train without a PFD...

How many of you people that posted about how stupid this was have working dogs? Yes, all dogs are not created equal, some are built for water, some aren't; that is up to the owner to understand. But for those of you commenting on this thread, that dog is built for water, it's inherited instincts you've never even thought of. I've been around dogs my whole life and those of you that say a dog, bread for swimming, can't swim well enough to negotiate that hole (especially in a pfd) need to pull your head out of your asses.

We duck hunt with dogs, my Springers even in 33 degree water and negative air temps, they very happily do this all day. They can handle cold, they know not to breathe when under water and have the ability to shut their nostrils when splashed, instantly and instinctively. They're not going to inhale a lung full of water. They, like humans have the drive to preserve life, they're not going to roll over, paws up and say "aw fuckit, my pfd, buddy, master, what ever" will save me, they're going to swim to shore. Like humans, experience makes them stronger, better at getting themselves out of problems but they have instincts we don't understand and IMO they are better at getting out of trouble than most humans, just watch em' for a while.

Are there rivers they don't belong? Hell yes, but it's not the job of joe buzzard to determine where that is for everyone else. If you think it's a bad idea, say so, but don't call people idiots, morons, assholes, whatever because you disagree with their decisions. I guarantee you know less about the situation then they do! People on this forum need to relax and concentrate on their own problems, not other peoples.
Amen! Most intelligent post so far....

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. Winston Churchhill
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Old 08-09-2014   #53
lhowemt's Avatar
at my house, Montana
Paddling Since: 2020
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,347
We have started taking our pups down that run recently. But this is after our older dog had 2 MF's a Main Salmon, Lower, and others. Our younger girl has been in serious rafting training. The hydraulics in the gorge are weird and people do die in tumbleweed. There are always risks. We hold on to our girls in the front of the boat while bracing feet in the floor edge. Personally I would not let our girls ride so exposed. No, they don't love the bigger rapids but love the entire day. A couple of weeks ago we had 6 dogs, 9 kids and our girls had so much fun. I love to see them with their big golden smiles. Lila was smart, in the big waves above tumbleweed she turned around so didn't take a faceshot in the main drop. I love boating with our girls!

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I am a river, babe - I've got plenty of time, I don't know where I'm going, I'm just following the lines..... - "We are water" by Shaye
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Old 08-10-2014   #54
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at my house, Montana
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Here we are 2 (3?) Weekends ago in the same spot. Sweet level for dogs as it is more powerful higher and steeper and a deeper wave lower. Hope to go back next weekend too.

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I am a river, babe - I've got plenty of time, I don't know where I'm going, I'm just following the lines..... - "We are water" by Shaye
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Old 08-11-2014   #55
Great Falls, Montana
Paddling Since: .3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 845
Originally Posted by montuckyhuck View Post
Geeze guy, toughen up a bit. You posted some shit, some people said it was stupid and some people said it was cool. I left my name and phone # because most people on this website used to be KAYAKERS who knew who each other were and now it's a bunch of anonymous rafters getting their tampons in a wad when anyone disagrees with something they say or post. This site used to have: (a) Kayakers, (b) thicker skin, (c) a sense of humor, (d) a sense of community. I would tell you the same thing over a beer that I posted. Again part of the reason I left my info, cause all the anonymous rable that people spray over the internet that they either don't really believe or would never say to you in person.
I think you've reacted worse to my comments than I did to yours. In your comments you insulted another religion, called me a retard and suggested that in the future I'll be able to reminisce about the past "when I downed my dog". It has nothing to do with anyone disagreeing with me, in fact I welcome disagreement It's really not that big of a deal, but I'm commenting on it since you made several points. I apologize for using the word "fight". I didn't mean it like fists, but more like beating your chest. In two pages of your post history you only left your number in mine after throwing out several insults so I'll stick to that conclusion. My point is that the way people treat each other is digressing and yes it is bringing me down a little. Because you would insult someone in person is no more admirable than doing it anonymously IMO. Maybe these are all good and fun to those who know you. Judging by your past posts, you have a lot of friends, and have a lot of fun with them on the Buzz. Your even very helpful. I joke around like that with friends I've had for years, but like you said, I (rafter) have moved in on your turf (kayaker) and we don't know each other from Adam so I wouldn't have been quite so hasty, but that is just me.

Last year I posted a comment about spamming on the Buzz. That user found my phone#, started making harassing/threatening phone calls sending threatening emails and PMs and publicly lied about my business in my local Craigslist. I'm still dealing with it. Because I prefer a level of anonymity doesn't mean what you may think.
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Old 08-11-2014   #56
Great Falls, Montana
Paddling Since: .3
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[QUOTE= To the OP....I'm sorry you didn't get the response to your thread that you were looking for. Instead of "wow that's cool" you got "won that's stupid." This is after all Mountain Buzz, and there are quite a wide variety of opinions, and a wide variety in how folks express them. If you post, be ready to feel the love of your fellow buzzards....good or bad.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't looking for anything in particular, but I was surprised at what happened. "Wow that is Stupid" would not have surprised me that much. I do respect varied opinions and enjoy objective dialog. The conversations as to why that was stupid and how to better deal with it are great and help everyone and that is what mostly came out of this thread.
I frequent several forums of various disciplines and I have noticed a quickly growing trend of people treating each other not only poor, but downright shitty. If they were at least related to the subject at hand that would be one thing, but many of these are nothing but insult competitions to see who can be more vulgar, with references to “tampons” and “panties” (being very popular among the more juvenile posts to infer that they themselves are much more manly). The Buzz is far from the worst of this, but I have actually been very surprised at how much exists here. Maybe it is because I run into so many very courteous and helpful floaters on the river. ??
It wasn’t that bad at all in this thread, but some of the early insults took me by surprise so I brought up the point of how quickly we (me included) can jump to conclusions, judge and insult. Especially with subjects as passionate as our pups. And admittedly I feel a little bad about posting pictures of this guy that was about to be the subject of the insults.

I have trained dogs professionally for many years in the military and for search and rescue. I have noticed that one of the things (almost all) dogs hate the most is when the ground moves under their feet. Dogs hate shaky ground. In my experience that is why that dog looks so anxious in the picture and I’m sure he would appreciate a better/safer platform. And I also agree that it is our responsibility to provide as safe of a condition as possible for our pups. I’m also one of the people that takes my pup (when I have one) with me almost everywhere I go, even in high risk, because I believe that is what living is about. That is just me and I’m not saying that anyone else should feel that way.

I'm out of this thread. Sorry if I brought everyone down with this novel and all the drama and contention. I really didn't mean to do that, especially in the gear section. It really wasn't all that bad in this thread, but I got carried away in my responses.
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Old 08-11-2014   #57
The Old Troll
David Miller's Avatar
Gypsum, Colorado
Paddling Since: 2000
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 458
You must be a Mormon too. How are your wives?
Why does Pluto walk on all fours, drink from a dog bowl, and get treated like...a dog, while Goofy drives a car, wears clothing, and speaks in English?
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Old 08-13-2014   #58
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Lakewood, Colorado
Paddling Since: 1989
Join Date: Jun 2008
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On the river, I can abandon who I am and what I've done. However brief it lasts, while on the river I am nothing important and everything insignificant. I am flotsam, and happy to be so.
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Old 08-13-2014   #59
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 175
you folks need to get on the water before its all gone

I'll boat til the rivers run dry
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